Can I give my partner a T??? (long)

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Correct, to a point. I don't know what things are like in your little section of Rome, but here, in my little corner of Connecticut, most middle school games get rookie officials (granted, not usually for championship games).

Around here, rookie officials have passed both a written rules test, and a mechanics floor exam. Passed, not necessarily with an A+. Also, by the first week of February, some of our rookie officials, depending on their weekday afternoon availability, may have had only a few games, if any, under their belts.

Yes, a middle school coach should expect a rookie official to visually count ten seconds, but just because they should know it, doesn't mean that they're going to do it. They've got to learn somewhere. Rookies sure as hell aren't going to learn their trade working high school varsity games. So where else to better "screw up" than in a middle school game, "competitive", "varsity", or otherwise.

Billy,
In Central Ohio, the Catholic League MS games are almost ALL done by HS varsity officials that also do Catholic League HS games. The "rookies" are assigned 4th - 6th grade games -- frequently with varsity HS partners.

In the largest MS conference in town, MOST of the games are done by Varsity HS officials. Once again, MOST of the "rookies" do the 4th - 6th grade recreational league games.

JR, while I agree that coaches should indeed be showing good sportsmanship, in our MS leagues, we expect the officials to have some idea as to what they are doing. Getting STUPID AND LOUD is going to cause many a MS coach to react in a frustrated manner.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Getting STUPID AND LOUD is going to cause many a MS coach to react in a frustrated manner.

Got it. Getting STUPID and LOUD is OK for MS coaches.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

I know that many officials on this board feel that a technical foul is warranted in this case -- regardless how wrong officials are. BUT, officials need to understand that coaches work very hard all week long to their teams ready to play. Middle school coaches still have the right to expect an official will know how to be an OFFICIAL.

As officials, we are REQUIRED to use a visible count. To not use one -- and then ARGUE in an offensive tone -- is going to allow the coach a leash usually reserved for one running with a dog in a large field!

Get your partner away from the coach as quickly and as far as you can.

Do not give me that crap about how hard you worked at the MS level. If you want to get further respect, then stop coaching middle school. Because the absolute newest or not so good officials are the ones that work those games mostly. You get what you pay for and sometimes what you ask for.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

I heard your complaint and we will address it so please don't make me have to give you a T. I understand your frustration but we can't be raising our voice at each other".

I'm with Snaqs, Robby. As soon as you said that, you threw your partner under the bus. His credibility just went down the ol' crapper for the rest of the night, as well as probably in any future games with that particular coach. You were completely right in trying to defuse the situation. Obviously your very inexperienced partner needed your help. But there is a way to help... and making any comment at all about your partner's officiating ability isn't a help.

JMO.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'm with Snaqs, Robby. As soon as you said that, you threw your partner under the bus. His credibility just went down the ol' crapper for the rest of the night, as well as probably in any future games with that particular coach. You were completely right in trying to defuse the situation. Obviously your very inexperienced partner needed your help. But there is a way to help... and making any comment at all about your partner's officiating ability isn't a help.

JMO.

Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.

Yeah, wouldn't you have to HAVE credibility to LOSE credibility?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.

Doesn't matter. Now he's got added ammo to take to the assigner/supervisor. "Even the other official said he understood my frustration." Your job, as his partner, is to help him maintain some credibility.

Might not be fair, but it is what it is. There's a huge possibility that your game would have gone into the tank the 2nd half after the coach realizes you don't trust your partner.

"Robby, you said you were going to deal with him at half time!"

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Doesn't matter. Now he's got added ammo to take to the assigner/supervisor. "Even the other official said he understood my frustration." Your job, as his partner, is to help him maintain some credibility.

Might not be fair, but it is what it is. There's a huge possibility that your game would have gone into the tank the 2nd half after the coach realizes you don't trust your partner.

"Robby, you said you were going to deal with him at half time!"

Snaqs,
In MOST cases, an official may be able to provide "cover" for his/her partner. At the same time, in this instance, I don't think it would have made a damn bit of difference what Robby would have said.

While most coaches don't know many of the nuances (back court rules, legal guarding position, etc.), MOST KNOW that counts are to be visible. Coaches sense a "rookie" from 84 feet away.

Until Mr. Hothead Harry learns to keep his emotions in check, his assigner should KNOW about his lack of mechanics knowledge and oncourt emotions. Officials expect coaches to "act the right way" (we don't say "hey, this guy is just 'learning', let's give him some leeway"). It is just as reasonable to expect the officials to do the same.

For the record, the Catholic League MS coaches are ALL volunteers. Many of the public school coaches are paid little. On the other hand, the officials get paid $30 - $40 for doing these MS games. Once again, a basic rules and mechanics knowledge is expected.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Doesn't matter. Now he's got added ammo to take to the assigner/supervisor. "Even the other official said he understood my frustration." Your job, as his partner, is to help him maintain some credibility.

Might not be fair, but it is what it is. There's a huge possibility that your game would have gone into the tank the 2nd half after the coach realizes you don't trust your partner.

"Robby, you said you were going to deal with him at half time!"

First off, I am not going to defend this partner to our assigner/supervisor. IMHO, he has no business on the floor until his anger problem is resolved. Granted that isn't my call; however, if asked I would recommend that he not be assigned to any games.

While my OP was long, it only told part of the story. When I made the statement about "I understand your frustration" it was after he kept telling me that he only asked a question and my partner yelled at him. He told me that he only asked a question and my partner started raising his voice. At that point in time, saving my partner was way out of my hands - and to be honest with you was low on my priority list. I was extremely pissed at my partner - I wanted to jump all over him for yelling at a coach but I refrained because I did not want to make him look any worse than he already did. This is one of those HTBT moments and having never run into this situation in 20 years of officiating, I wasn't exactly prepared for this. I have had to cover partners who made bad calls, etc but have never had to try to control a "verbal fight" between a coach and an official. They don't teach us that in camp.

It is easy to sit back in my chair tonight and say I should have done this or should have done that but I am going to tell you that when it happens in real time (and you're shocked by your partner's behavior), it doesn't always come out the way it should.

I know one thing - I will never call another game with him. He is on my unofficial blocked officials list with my assigner.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Doesn't matter. Now he's got added ammo to take to the assigner/supervisor. "Even the other official said he understood my frustration." Your job, as his partner, is to help him maintain some credibility.

Might not be fair, but it is what it is. There's a huge possibility that your game would have gone into the tank the 2nd half after the coach realizes you don't trust your partner.

"Robby, you said you were going to deal with him at half time!"

+1

It seems that more concern was shown towards the coach's feelings than a very obviously inexperienced first year official. A very obviously inexperienced official that in all liklihood ain't gonna be around for a second year now either.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

+1

It seems that more concern was shown towards the coach's feelings than a very obviously inexperienced first year official. A very obviously inexperienced official that in all liklihood ain't gonna be around for a second year now either.

And I am okay with that - but he won't be around because I threw him under the bus, he won't be around because he can't handle his anger. THere is no way in the world am I taking the blame for it - we don't need officials like him on the court. Had it been rookie mistakes it would be different but this was unexcusable. If he never calls another game I am fine with that.

You can make me out the bad guy all you won't (not sure what your issue is with me but .................) but I refuse to take up for an official who acts like that. If all he had done was failed to do the count I would have gladly defended him; however, when he starts verbally attacking the coach, he is on his own. At that point in time all I am going to do is try to get the situation underhand before it escalates further.