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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:18pm
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Can I give my partner a T??? (long)

Sorry for the long post but it is needed to set the scenario.

I know it seems as if I have been down on some partners lately but today's situation takes the prize.

Two whistle, MS tournament, championship game. I get notification from Arbiter about three hours prior to game time that I had a new U1 - someone I didn't know. No problem as I enjoy working with new people at times - especially if it is a lower level game such as MS. I get there probably a hour early because I wanted to see the game prior to ours. My partner arrives about 15 minutes prior to game time so I have to do a rush pre-game. Found out he is a first year official and got the call at lunch to cover this game due to my original partner having to leave town unexpectedly. I try to go over as much as I can in a 5 minute period and then we head to the floor. I check the books, etc and off we are to tip off.

Well his lack of experience showed quickly. As play was in the front court, he would stand about 10 feet behind the division line. While standing back there he called a double dribble in my area from way back there. He missed several traveling violations, etc but I racked it up to inexperience. At the first TO we had I asked him to close down while we were in the FC and he got better at it after that. I also noticed he wasn't doing a visual count while the team was bringing the ball down the court. I mentioned it to him and he did a little better.

Well if this was the only issue, I would have been okay but....... Near the end of the second period, he again has no visual count and the offense is being pressed heavily and having a hard time getting it past mid court. It seems that they took well over 10 seconds but I wasn't going to call it from my L position. Needless to say the visiting team's coach was pretty upset and they clearly had the home team trapped. At the end of the period the coach said something to my partner about not calling 10 seconds and not having a visual count. I overheard it and the HC was nice about it but my partner says (in a very defensive and loud tone - " I counted it in my head and that should be good enough for you. You worry about your team and I will take care of the calls." Needless to say this flew all over the coach. I immediately step in and ask both of them to calm down and lets get off the floor for half time. Well the HC continues and so does my partner. I am thinking "great I may have to give the coach a T but he is being provoked by my partner!!!" The HC kept on and I finally said "coach, I will handle this but you are going to have to be calm. I heard your complaint and we will address it so please don't make me have to give you a T. I understand your frustration but we can't be raising our voice at each other". He said he had no problem with me but did my partner. I told him "coach, consider this your warning - another word and I will have to give you a T" He turned and went to the locker room. I probably should have issued the T but I was trying to defuse the situation that my partner has started.

We get to our locker room and I asked my partner why he raised his voice to the coach. He responded that he accused me of not having the BC count. I told him that didn't justify his response. I told him that it puts us in an embarrassing situation by him yelling at a coach. He was very defensive and said he wasn't go to stand there and take it. I told him that if he really wants to officiate ball he is going to have to get some thick skin and let things go - especially when the HC asked him in a calm tone initially.

So should I have T'd the coach anyway? I wanted to give them both a T but obviously that isn't possible
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
The HC kept on and I finally said "coach, I will handle this but you are going to have to be calm. I heard your complaint and we will address it so please don't make me have to give you a T. I understand your frustration but we can't be raising our voice at each other". He said he had no problem with me but did my partner. I told him "coach, consider this your warning - another word and I will have to give you a T" He turned and went to the locker room. I probably should have issued the T but I was trying to defuse the situation that my partner has started.
I hope your partner sends you the bill for the tire tracks on the his uniform.

"Coach, you've said your piece. It's time to move on." That's his warning; after that he gets the T.
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:29pm
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Sounds like you handle it fine. How did the 2nd half go with the coach?
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:29pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I hope your partner sends you the bill for the tire tracks on the his uniform.

"Coach, you've said your piece. It's time to move on." That's his warning; after that he gets the T.
Yea I probably should just said that but with them both yelling at each other I found myself in a situation I had never experienced in 20 years of calling ball - my partner yelling at a coach. I thought I had witnessed it all but obviously not
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:30pm
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Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
Sounds like you handle it fine. How did the 2nd half go with the coach?
Went okay - no real issues. He did question a block I called but no in a nasty way so I let it go.
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:33pm
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Get in, get done, get out... or however that goes followed by a call to the assigner. Most assigners expect new people will have some bugs to work out, but a new guy with anger management issues is probably something your assigner would like to know about.
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:36pm
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Originally Posted by biggravy View Post
Get in, get done, get out... or however that goes followed by a call to the assigner. Most assigners expect new people will have some bugs to work out, but a new guy with anger management issues is probably something your assigner would like to know about.
I agree. I was "okay" with his mistakes calling ball - I made tons of them my first year so I can accept that. I can't accept his yelling at a coach - provoked or not. I will be calling the assigner.
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Old Sat Feb 05, 2011, 09:47pm
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Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
Yea I probably should just said that but with them both yelling at each other I found myself in a situation I had never experienced in 20 years of calling ball - my partner yelling at a coach. I thought I had witnessed it all but obviously not
Yeah, sometimes the new guys get fed up. Most likely, he's been taking some abuse all season, finally realized he doesn't have to take it, but took the wrong road to not taking it.

He should have simply responded, just as calmly, by saying he got to 9 or whatever. Chances are his count is slow, no big deal.

"I don't have to stand there and take it" is different than, "I get to yell back at him."

The difference takes experience.
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 12:10am
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Had the rook done a visible count in the first place, this whole thing could have been avoided. I may have questioned that, asking who taught him that "counting in your head" is acceptable for fives and tens.

I worked with two different rooks this season. I believe you have to get a feel with how receptive they are to take advice. If they don't want it, gravy's right, just get the game done as best as you can. If they're receptive, then take advantage of the opportunity to clue them in, and possibly nip some habits in the bud.
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 07:13am
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Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
I overheard it and the HC was nice about it but my partner says (in a very defensive and loud tone - " I counted it in my head and that should be good enough for you. You worry about your team and I will take care of the calls."
I know that many officials on this board feel that a technical foul is warranted in this case -- regardless how wrong officials are. BUT, officials need to understand that coaches work very hard all week long to their teams ready to play. Middle school coaches still have the right to expect an official will know how to be an OFFICIAL.

As officials, we are REQUIRED to use a visible count. To not use one -- and then ARGUE in an offensive tone -- is going to allow the coach a leash usually reserved for one running with a dog in a large field!

Get your partner away from the coach as quickly and as far as you can.
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 08:12am
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Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef View Post
Middle school coaches still have the right to expect an official will know how to be an OFFICIAL.
And officials still have the right to expect a COACH will know how to set an example for good sportsmanship, especially at the MS level. Doesn't it work both ways?
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 08:26am
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Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
I heard your complaint and we will address it so please don't make me have to give you a T. I understand your frustration but we can't be raising our voice at each other".
I'm with Snaqs, Robby. As soon as you said that, you threw your partner under the bus. His credibility just went down the ol' crapper for the rest of the night, as well as probably in any future games with that particular coach. You were completely right in trying to defuse the situation. Obviously your very inexperienced partner needed your help. But there is a way to help... and making any comment at all about your partner's officiating ability isn't a help.

JMO.
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 01:47pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
I'm with Snaqs, Robby. As soon as you said that, you threw your partner under the bus. His credibility just went down the ol' crapper for the rest of the night, as well as probably in any future games with that particular coach. You were completely right in trying to defuse the situation. Obviously your very inexperienced partner needed your help. But there is a way to help... and making any comment at all about your partner's officiating ability isn't a help.

JMO.

Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 02:21pm
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Originally Posted by RobbyinTN View Post
Agree in principle but I think his credibility with the coach was gone as soon as he yelled at him.
Yeah, wouldn't you have to HAVE credibility to LOSE credibility?
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Old Sun Feb 06, 2011, 05:00pm
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Rookies ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef View Post
Middle school coaches still have the right to expect an official will know how to be an official.
Correct, to a point. I don't know what things are like in your little section of Rome, but here, in my little corner of Connecticut, most middle school games get rookie officials (granted, not usually for championship games).

Around here, rookie officials have passed both a written rules test, and a mechanics floor exam. Passed, not necessarily with an A+. Also, by the first week of February, some of our rookie officials, depending on their weekday afternoon availability, may have had only a few games, if any, under their belts.

Yes, a middle school coach should expect a rookie official to visually count ten seconds, but just because they should know it, doesn't mean that they're going to do it. They've got to learn somewhere. Rookies sure as hell aren't going to learn their trade working high school varsity games. So where else to better "screw up" than in a middle school game, "competitive", "varsity", or otherwise.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Feb 06, 2011 at 07:18pm.
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