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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 10:28am
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Unhappy

Boys JV game last night. I'm working with a partner that, at least in my experience, is notorious for calling everything everywhere. In our pre-game when we talked about what we were each going to work on during the game, his one thing was calling only what mattered.

We had probably 40 fouls called (double bonus both ways 2nd half, nearly in the 1st half too). He had 80-85% of those calls. Some were things in my area I had passed on. Many were things that should have been passed on (IMHO). I brought the issue up a couple of times during time outs, etc.

I could not make myself tighten up my game to match his (nor did I want to). And I couldn't get him to loosen up.

In the end, it was like sensing an impending train wreck and not being able to stop it. With less than a minute to go he ends up having to T a coach for what he said in frustration. Then T's the same team on the throw-in for reaching through the boundary (they'd been previously warned and T'd).

Is there more I could have done to make this situation any better?
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 10:41am
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Wink Enjoy the ride.

All you could do is have a good pregame and make it clear that we have to be on the same page. After that it is up to each official to make that happen. There really is nothing you can do personally is discuss plays and situations that were called. The best question to ask is, "What did you see on...?" There is not a whole lot else you can do is enjoy the ride.

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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 11:07am
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BITS....I too do not change my officiating to match my partners. I try to discuss it during TO's, halftime, etc... If that does no good I just keep my calls consistant. My challenge always seems to be the coaches trying to pit one of us against the other.
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 11:12am
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It's a helpless situation. You did all you could. I observed a freshman game last night and it was very similar. 20 fouls in the first half. 17 of them by one official and 10 of those were out of his primary and 9 of those weren't fouls. As Mick would say, "get in, get done, get out."

Z
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
In the end, it was like sensing an impending train wreck and not being able to stop it. With less than a minute to go he ends up having to T a coach for what he said in frustration. Then T's the same team on the throw-in for reaching through the boundary (they'd been previously warned and T'd).

Some folks just don't know when to stop blowing the whistle.

Any chance you could have gotten your partner to take back the T on the coach?
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 11:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
In the end, it was like sensing an impending train wreck and not being able to stop it. With less than a minute to go he ends up having to T a coach for what he said in frustration. Then T's the same team on the throw-in for reaching through the boundary (they'd been previously warned and T'd).

Some folks just don't know when to stop blowing the whistle.

Any chance you could have gotten your partner to take back the T on the coach?
Interesting question. The coach clearly earned the T: What was said was heard by probably half the people in the gym. I heard it at lead on the far side at the other end of the floor.

Plus my partner clearly felt he was having a good game and just was not understanding the game management issues in play. Low, I don't think I could have helped him see any reason to even consider doing it.
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
BITS....I too do not change my officiating to match my partners. I try to discuss it during TO's, halftime, etc... If that does no good I just keep my calls consistant. My challenge always seems to be the coaches trying to pit one of us against the other.
I'm not sure I agree with this entirely.

I agree that if your partner is making the wrong calls, you don't then make the same wrong calls, but if they are calling more marginal contact than you would normally call, you do need to attempt to get on the same page even if that means passing less, because one team may get hurt worse than the other if you are not close to being on the same page.
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 02:12pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
BITS....I too do not change my officiating to match my partners. I try to discuss it during TO's, halftime, etc... If that does no good I just keep my calls consistant. My challenge always seems to be the coaches trying to pit one of us against the other.
I'm not sure I agree with this entirely.

I agree that if your partner is making the wrong calls, you don't then make the same wrong calls, but if they are calling more marginal contact than you would normally call, you do need to attempt to get on the same page even if that means passing less, because one team may get hurt worse than the other if you are not close to being on the same page.
I agree with you, to a degree. Wrong calls: definitely don't follow him down that path. If he's calling it so tightly that it's negatively impacting the game, I don't think I should follow there either. As far as hurting one team or the other, in this case we were switching so often, and he was reaching far enough, there really wasn't any chance of it all going against one team.

In a less extreme scenario, I would entirely agree with you.
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 02:13pm
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Blindzebra....I think I agree with your logic. When you mention hurt do you mean by the foul count or physically? If it's physically I do everything in my power to avoid them getting hurt. With 2 of my own playing ball I am probably one of the worst howler monkeys when I fell the ref is letting too much go and think it could lead to the players getting hurt. Both boys are young so we get the young officials. They have to start somewhere and I try to hold my tongue.
If it's the foul count do you think I should adjust to kepp it even or adjust to keep the consistancy at both ends of the court?
Not trying to pick a fight here, just get some clarification, advise, point of view, etc...

Thanks
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 02:17pm
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
Blindzebra....I think I agree with your logic. When you mention hurt do you mean by the foul count or physically? If it's physically I do everything in my power to avoid them getting hurt. With 2 of my own playing ball I am probably one of the worst howler monkeys when I fell the ref is letting too much go and think it could lead to the players getting hurt. Both boys are young so we get the young officials. They have to start somewhere and I try to hold my tongue.
If it's the foul count do you think I should adjust to kepp it even or adjust to keep the consistancy at both ends of the court?
Not trying to pick a fight here, just get some clarification, advise, point of view, etc...

Thanks
What's a "foul count?"
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 03:04pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
Blindzebra....I think I agree with your logic. When you mention hurt do you mean by the foul count or physically? If it's physically I do everything in my power to avoid them getting hurt. With 2 of my own playing ball I am probably one of the worst howler monkeys when I fell the ref is letting too much go and think it could lead to the players getting hurt. Both boys are young so we get the young officials. They have to start somewhere and I try to hold my tongue.
If it's the foul count do you think I should adjust to kepp it even or adjust to keep the consistancy at both ends of the court?
Not trying to pick a fight here, just get some clarification, advise, point of view, etc...

Thanks
I'm talking about being consistent as a crew.

Let's say your partner is calling EVERYTHING, and you only call a few here and there, it is possible that one team might have your partner with his happy whistle more often.

I don't think foul totals are an issue, but what IS being called is. If your partner calls that handcheck you need to call that type of play a handcheck.

The first chance you get you address it with your partner.

How? Now that's the question.

You can say," WE set the tone, so I think WE can back off some."

Or, "Did WE need that call at...did it make the game better?"

The thing is if you adjust, not only is it more consistent for the players, but it allows you to address the issue from WE as a crew are calling too much, and not having a, "How about swallowing that whistle partner," sort of thing.

[Edited by blindzebra on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 03:07 PM]
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 03:07pm
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BZ....good advise. Easy to understand. I think I'll work that into my gameplan next time this occurs.

Thanks...out.
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Old Thu Dec 02, 2004, 03:14pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
Blindzebra....I think I agree with your logic. When you mention hurt do you mean by the foul count or physically? If it's physically I do everything in my power to avoid them getting hurt. With 2 of my own playing ball I am probably one of the worst howler monkeys when I fell the ref is letting too much go and think it could lead to the players getting hurt. Both boys are young so we get the young officials. They have to start somewhere and I try to hold my tongue.
If it's the foul count do you think I should adjust to kepp it even or adjust to keep the consistancy at both ends of the court?
Not trying to pick a fight here, just get some clarification, advise, point of view, etc...

Thanks
I'm talking about being consistent as a crew.

Let's say your partner is calling EVERYTHING, and you only call a few here and there, it is possible that one team might have your partner with his happy whistle more often.

I don't think foul totals are an issue, but what IS being called is. If your partner calls that handcheck you need to call that type of play a handcheck.

The first chance you get you address it with your partner.

How? Now that's the question.

You can say," WE set the tone, so I think WE can back off some."

Or, "Did WE need that call at...did it make the game better?"

The thing is if you adjust, not only is it more consistent for the players, but it allows you to address the issue from WE as a crew are calling too much, and not having a, "How about swallowing that whistle partner," sort of thing.

[Edited by blindzebra on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 03:07 PM]
GREAT ADVICE! I'm copying this to give to other officials in my association!
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Old Fri Dec 03, 2004, 12:29am
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Quote:
Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:
Originally posted by Dudly
Blindzebra....I think I agree with your logic. When you mention hurt do you mean by the foul count or physically? If it's physically I do everything in my power to avoid them getting hurt. With 2 of my own playing ball I am probably one of the worst howler monkeys when I fell the ref is letting too much go and think it could lead to the players getting hurt. Both boys are young so we get the young officials. They have to start somewhere and I try to hold my tongue.
If it's the foul count do you think I should adjust to kepp it even or adjust to keep the consistancy at both ends of the court?
Not trying to pick a fight here, just get some clarification, advise, point of view, etc...

Thanks
I'm talking about being consistent as a crew.

Let's say your partner is calling EVERYTHING, and you only call a few here and there, it is possible that one team might have your partner with his happy whistle more often.

I don't think foul totals are an issue, but what IS being called is. If your partner calls that handcheck you need to call that type of play a handcheck.

The first chance you get you address it with your partner.

How? Now that's the question.

You can say," WE set the tone, so I think WE can back off some."

Or, "Did WE need that call at...did it make the game better?"

The thing is if you adjust, not only is it more consistent for the players, but it allows you to address the issue from WE as a crew are calling too much, and not having a, "How about swallowing that whistle partner," sort of thing.

[Edited by blindzebra on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 03:07 PM]
Very well put, blindzebra. Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Your suggestions sound very good. And I will certainly spend more time thinking about them. But I'm having a hard time getting past the thought that I would be becoming "part of the problem" in order to help solve the problem.

I can certainly see how your suggestions could work if my parter was calling it a little tighter, or somewhat tighter. I could see how they'd work if there were a specific type of foul, or two, that he was calling and I was passing on.

But what if you are just not comfortable calling it as tight as he is? Do you still go there in an attempt to gain some leverage to back WE off? Do you still go there to make sure it's called uncomfortably tight both ways? That sounds to me like making sure both teams get screwed equally. I suppose that's somewhat better than only one team getting it. But much worse than neither team getting it.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about a sizable difference in how you and your partner are calling, not a small or medium size one.

Assuming you do go there, what if you can't get WE to back off? Do you carry on? Do you effectively let the whistle happy partner dictate how you will call the game?
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Old Fri Dec 03, 2004, 12:39am
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BITS, I'd say move just a little bit closer to where your P is. However, if he's going to call your primary, there's no need to move too far.
Get in, Get done, Get out. Or as Larry the Cable Guy would say, Git 'er Done!

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[Edited by Snaqwells on Dec 3rd, 2004 at 12:42 AM]
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