Correctable

[Stillblind]

B1 fouls A1. Then A2 is charged with a technical foul. B2 shoots first shot for the T with lane cleared. Then the table says B1's foul was teams 7th. We shoot the 2nd shot for the T(because we were already there and it felt right) and then A1 shoots 1-1 at the other end(lane cleared). We then gave B ball for throw in at division line.
This play has been bothering me for 3 days now and Im starting to believe that we should have not shot the 1-1 due to the time limit for correctable error was over. We had two live balls even though the clock never started. Then I read case play 8.7.B, which is the exact play, except time has expired. Does the expiration of time make the play different?

[APG]

This is a correctable error and caught within the proper time frame.

2-10

Art. 2...In order to correct any of the official's errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

[BktBallRef]

This is NOT a correctable error, nor is any correction necessary.

You shot the FTs in the wrong order, no big deal. Once you started shooting the FTs for the T, you were correct in finishing them, shooting the 1 & 1 and then awarding the ball to Team B.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

This is NOT a correctable error, nor is any correction necessary.

You shot the FTs in the wrong order, no big deal. Once you started shooting the FTs for the T, you were correct in finishing them, shooting the 1 & 1 and then awarding the ball to Team B.

I agree that we don't correct the order of the free throws since in the end all merited free throws were shot. Wouldn't you say that technically there was a correctable error of merited free throws not being shot since the table informed the officials of the bonus situation late? Not that it really matters. The main point is that the 1-and-1 is still shot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

This is NOT a correctable error, nor is any correction necessary.

You shot the FTs in the wrong order, no big deal. Once you started shooting the FTs for the T, you were correct in finishing them, shooting the 1 & 1 and then awarding the ball to Team B.

It actually was a correctable error the moment the first T FT was shot...the game had progressed (ball made live) without having awarded FTs what were due. If discovered at that moment, the 1+1 should have been shot then....it wasn't but that isn't a big deal. When an error is discovered, you stop where you are and fix it, then continue after the error is corrected with any throw in or free throw that is still due (with players along the lane if a remaining FT is for a personal foul). When the 1+1 was eventually shot, that was the correction (even if they didn't realize that they were correcting the correctable error). After that, there was no longer anything to correct as all FTs had been awarded to proper shooters (just in the wrong order).

Example: A1 is fouled by B1 with 8 team fouls but is awarded a throw in. A turns the ball over and B3 is fouled while shooting. B3 takes 1 FT. The table informs the officials of the error. Stop. Put A1 on the line for 1+1 with no one on the lane, then come back and finish B3's 2nd FT with players on the lane.

[cmathews]

[quote=Example: A1 is fouled by B1 with 8 team fouls but is awarded a throw in. A turns the ball over and B3 is fouled while shooting. B3 takes 1 FT. The table informs the officials of the error. Stop. Put A1 on the line for 1+1 with no one on the lane, then come back and finish B3's 2nd FT with players on the lane.[/quote]

this is no longer correctable. A inbounds the ball and turns it over, live ball, B is fouled and the ball becomes dead. (dead ball number 1). B3 is given the ball for a free throw (live ball) free throw 1 is over (dead ball #2). It has to be discovered no later than the first dead ball after the clock has started. After the free throw is the 2nd dead ball, so no longer correctable

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by cmathews

this is no longer correctable. A inbounds the ball and turns it over, live ball, B is fouled and the ball becomes dead. (dead ball number 1). B3 is given the ball for a free throw (live ball) free throw 1 is over (dead ball #2). It has to be discovered no later than the first dead ball after the clock has started. After the free throw is the 2nd dead ball, so no longer correctable

You're correct....bad example play...here is a better one to demonstrate the point...

Example: A1 is fouled by B1 with 8 team fouls but is awarded a throw in. Before the throwin ends, B3 is fouled with 10 team fouls on A. B3 takes 1 FT. The table informs the officials of the error. Stop. Put A1 on the line for 1+1 with no one on the lane, then come back and finish B3's 2nd FT with players on the lane.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Wouldn't you say that technically there was a correctable error of merited free throws not being shot since the table informed the officials of the bonus situation late?

I would. NFHS 2-10-1a, "failure to award a merited free throw." That was exactly the case after the first FT for the T.

I see nothing wrong with the way Stillblind handled it. The clock never started, and wasn't going to start until all FTs were done, anyway, so it sounds like good game management by letting one team finish before moving onto the other.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're correct....bad example play...here is a better one to demonstrate the point...

Example: A1 is fouled by B1 with 8 team fouls but is awarded a throw in. Before the throwin ends, B3 is fouled with 10 team fouls on A. B3 takes 1 FT. The table informs the officials of the error. Stop. Put A1 on the line for 1+1 with no one on the lane, then come back and finish B3's 2nd FT with players on the lane.

Right, and if the officials mistakenly correct this by letting B3 finish his 2nd before lining everyone up and shooting A1's shots, it's not a C.E.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Right, and if the officials mistakenly correct this by letting B3 finish his 2nd before lining everyone up and shooting A1's shots, it's not a C.E.

Why isn't it? It is still within the proper timeframe? They've just made a correctable error twice on the same penalty (letting B3 shot once, then twice, both without giving A1 the shots due).

Or are you saying the order itself isn't a correctable error? That would be true, but the correctable error is the FTs that are due to A1 but not yet taken (not the order). They're correctable until they're shot or until the time limits expire....shooting them after B3 shoots is the correction.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why isn't it? It is still within the proper timeframe? They've just made a correctable error twice on the same penalty (letting B3 shot once, then twice, both without giving A1 the shots due).

Or are you saying the order itself isn't a correctable error? That would be true, but the correctable error is the FTs that are due to A1 but not yet taken (not the order). They're correctable until they're shot or until the time limits expire....shooting them after B3 shoots is the correction.

I agree with Cameron on this one. Since the clock never starts it doesn't matter how many free throws are shot before the correction does it??

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Or are you saying the order itself isn't a correctable error? That would be true, but the correctable error is the FTs that are due to A1 but not yet taken (not the order). They're correctable until they're shot or until the time limits expire....shooting them after B3 shoots is the correction.

The error is failure to award merited free throws. That error occurs when the officials proceed to other action.

If I discovered the error in between two free throws for a T, I'd do just what the OP did, and for the same reason. Since their rectification of the error took place within the prescribed time frame, I don't think it violated the rule.

In most cases rectifying the error should take place immediately, but the rule doesn't actually require that.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Why isn't it? It is still within the proper timeframe? They've just made a correctable error twice on the same penalty (letting B3 shot once, then twice, both without giving A1 the shots due).

Or are you saying the order itself isn't a correctable error? That would be true, but the correctable error is the FTs that are due to A1 but not yet taken (not the order). They're correctable until they're shot or until the time limits expire....shooting them after B3 shoots is the correction.

I meant that if they correct in the wrong order, that correction isn't correctable.