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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 06:14pm
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Cameron,

Obviously you're not interested in a view but your own.

Having worked basketball for many years and having worked baseball for over three decades I recognize FEDlandia involvement from a little different view than you.

"The only consequence that I heard was that the NFHS would not allow representives from states that do not use the official NFHS rules to be elected to the board/rules committee for that sport/activity."

In correct. Tim Stevens is a full member of the rules committee in certain sports at the National Fed level and is a working official and state rules interpreter for the State of Washington.

I think you need to research a little more.

And Cameron, I just live in Beaverton so we could discuss this further over a cold adult beverage.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 06:41pm
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Re: Cameron,

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
Obviously you're not interested in a view but your own.

Having worked basketball for many years and having worked baseball for over three decades I recognize FEDlandia involvement from a little different view than you.
I believe this is the first time I've been accused of anything like that. Perhaps its true, but I'm not so much stating my view as repeating what I've been told and read.

While I often do engage in discussions on debatable topics, I believe I have always kept it to discussing the points and not turning it into an issue about the other participants.

Quote:

"The only consequence that I heard was that the NFHS would not allow representives from states that do not use the official NFHS rules to be elected to the board/rules committee for that sport/activity."

In correct. Tim Stevens is a full member of the rules committee in certain sports at the National Fed level and is a working official and state rules interpreter for the State of Washington.

I think you need to research a little more.

And Cameron, I just live in Beaverton so we could discuss this further over a cold adult beverage.
Perhaps you should take a look at the NFHS website which I quote below (emphasis mine):

http://www.nfhs.org/rules-writing.htm

Quote:
STATE ASSOCIATIONS are not required to use NFHS playing rules. However, most states use NFHS playing rules for most sports. If a state is to have representation on a committee, it must follow the NFHS playing rules for the sport. If the rules give an option, a state may mandate either and retain membership on the committee.
I have don't doubt that Tim, and most if not all, Washington officals are fine people and officials. In particular, I don't dispute the accomplishments and contributions of Tim Stevens (who I admittedly do not know). He may very well be on some committees in sports where Washington adopts the NFHS rules.

It is also possible that the NFHS does not actually follow their stated policies.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 1st, 2002 at 05:51 PM]
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 07:06pm
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See you have finally found it . . .

FEDlandia DOES NOT always follow their own rules. They even change playing rules during the season at times.

Just a touch about Tim Stevens:

Garth Benham has a fine article on THIS WEBSITE about Tim and his postion with Washington and FED you had outta give it a read.

Tim is quite a scholar, a good football offical and a long time FED/NCAA umpire. He has represented District Eight (PNW) on the FED baseball rules committee for the past two years.

Tim is also the event coordinator for the WIAA (Washington equivilant to the OSAA) and stages their state championship competitions.

I just called Tom Welter (Head of the OSAA) and asked him about "conformance" to FED rules. At this time Oregon is using a different timing structure in debate than the National Federation and therefore they are not following the rules. They are suffering no penalties.

As Tom put it, "Tee, this would be the same as if we selected to allow six personal fouls before disqualifing a player in a basketball game."

[Edited by Tim C on Nov 1st, 2002 at 06:09 PM]
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 07:50pm
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Re: See you have finally found it . . .

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
FEDlandia DOES NOT always follow their own rules. They even change playing rules during the season at times.

Just a touch about Tim Stevens:

Garth Benham has a fine article on THIS WEBSITE about Tim and his postion with Washington and FED you had outta give it a read.

Tim is quite a scholar, a good football offical and a long time FED/NCAA umpire. He has represented District Eight (PNW) on the FED baseball rules committee for the past two years.

Tim is also the event coordinator for the WIAA (Washington equivilant to the OSAA) and stages their state championship competitions.

I just called Tom Welter (Head of the OSAA) and asked him about "conformance" to FED rules. At this time Oregon is using a different timing structure in debate than the National Federation and therefore they are not following the rules. They are suffering no penalties.

As Tom put it, "Tee, this would be the same as if we selected to allow six personal fouls before disqualifing a player in a basketball game."
Still nothing you've said is at odds with what I've claimed. While Tim Stevens may be on the rules committee for baseball, I don't think you find that Washington (or any other state) has or will have a rep on basketball committees as long as they are using the shot clock (or until the NFHS adopts it, all states within a region use one, or the NFHS changes or ignores their policy on conformance).

It's not that I care if they are allowed on the committee or not. I don't have an interest either way. My whole involvement around this issue is that someone wanted an NFHS comment on a shot clock situation when Tim Roden made the statement that the shot clock is not used in NFHS rules. Someone followed that it was an experiment in some states to which I replied that most of the states that are using it are doing so not as an experiment but simply because they want to. I merely stated the NFHS's published position on the matter.

All told, I think the shot clock will eventually come the NFHS. But, when it does, it will probably be phased in over several years. They are many schools that will have to replace equipment to comply. The NFHS will be sensitive to the ever common school budget contraints before implementing it across the nation.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 1st, 2002 at 06:56 PM]
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 07:59pm
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And Cameron,

I would agree that IF a state chooses (separate that from testing) to use different rules than FED then the probably shouldn't be on taht sports rules board. "If you don't like our rules then "pi$$-off" kinda thingy.

I took your original statement that not following a FED rule was a state "thumbing their nose" at FED as a negative statement.

My point stands:

You have no idea WHY some states play ammended rules. You shouldn't race to the most negative reaction possible.

Enough said, I am going back to the basaball board before some one says I sound like Rut.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 08:08pm
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Arrow Back to the Original Topic

The NBA uses Precision Time (the wireless timing system that uses a belt pack/microphone attached to each official's whistle). Because of this, there is no "lag time" principle. The only "lag" is between the time the violation or foul occurs and when the whistle is blown.

Clearly, the official cannot blow the whistle at the exact time the violation occurs, hence to 0.6 seconds on the clock.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 01, 2002, 11:33pm
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Good grief Tim, you sound like Rut!

Matt, the NBA had this rule, long before there was PT. And, PT does not always work, hence a Laker game last year that had a similiar type situation, where time had to be put back on the clock when PT didn't stop it.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 02, 2002, 10:52pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Good grief Tim, you sound like Rut!

Matt, the NBA had this rule, long before there was PT. And, PT does not always work, hence a Laker game last year that had a similiar type situation, where time had to be put back on the clock when PT didn't stop it.
Exactly - there's a reason why you still see a clock operator at the table during NBA games.
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