I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1

[Judtech]

Jurrasic Ref - Sorry you feel that way. I think I clearly stated what I did wrong and apologized for it.
"The worst example of a person trying to coach" is a bit hyperbolic, and while petty and personal attacks are something you default to, in this case I take exception. You have no idea what we do in practice. While I am not proud about the way I acted the other nite, I am VERY proud with what we have accomplished in the lives of the girls we have been fortunate enough to coach. As I told the girls yesterday in practice "saturday was a great example of someone BEING right, but not acting right. There is an intrinsic value in knowing you are correct, and sometimes it is best to keep that satisfaction to yourself."

IMO, it would be a great opportunity for you to share how you handle coaches turning in video about officials. As I said, I am not trying to be a smart ***, but it is a call that a lot of officials dread "Just got film from your game at XXX, so what exactly happened". Since you are a supervisor, it might be helpful to others to know what process and steps are taking before making that call.

But you were spot on. I am not one of "US". I try not to look at the world as "US" vs "THEM". (In full disclosure I am not one of "THEM" either). I love the game of basketball. I loved playing it, I love watching it at every level, I love officiating it and I love coaching it. The game has given me a lot, a college scholarship, a pay check, see the world, meet my wife, learn about myself and positively affect those around me. I do not fit that neatly into a label. There are not very many officials who also coach. There are not many coaches who coach with their spouse. Not sure what "label" that fits me with, but Crazy and Certifiable are two that come to mind! Or to get "touchy feely" I am just me!

[tref]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I love the game of basketball. I loved playing it, I love watching it at every level, I love officiating it and I love coaching it. The game has given me a lot, a college scholarship, a pay check, see the world, meet my wife, learn about myself and positively affect those around me. I do not fit that neatly into a label. There are not very many officials who also coach. There are not many coaches who coach with their spouse. Not sure what "label" that fits me with, but Crazy and Certifiable are two that come to mind! Or to get "touchy feely" I am just me!

Great points! I would just like to add, when you're in the AC role play THAT role & nothing more as we all know the coach that "refs too." When you're in the referee role play THAT role & nothing more as we should not coach players.

Had a game earlier in the season with an official that used to coach & was also an AD. We had a tough game from a consistency stand point as he refereed through a coaches/AD view of the game

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by tref

Great points! I would just like to add, when you're in the AC role play THAT role & nothing more as we all know the coach that "refs too." When you're in the referee role play THAT role & nothing more as we should not coach players.

Had a game earlier in the season with an official that used to coach & was also an AD. We had a tough game from a consistency stand point as he refereed through a coaches/AD view of the game

Agree 100% it is a VERY difficult thing to do. 99 times out of 100 I just do my Jerry Tarkanian imitation and gnaw on a towel (even shared a few of those instances on the board) Screwed the pooch on this one.
You also bring up a GREAT point that I discussed with fellow referee's a few years ago. I don't know how long you have officiated, but for younger/newer officials it can be a bit intimidating to some to work a game where the AD and/or coach has officiating background. (which sounds like what you were experiencing) They may start second guessing what THEY are doing, and start to think about what the AD/Coach thinks. That is a recipe for failure. It would be akin to when I first started calling and my supervisor would be in the stands watching. Was I making/not making calls for the GAME or for THEM. After awhile, you don't even notice/care if they are there are not. A great take away from this experience for ME is to have that in the back of my mind for 30 year vets not just "newbies".

[tref]

I respect that Judtech!!

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by tref

I respect that Jedtech!!

How can you RESPECT this guy!

Jedtech...you have got to be joking.

There is no way anyone with a half a brain would post the bullsh**t you did and the way you acted.

Oh wait, you must have a half a brain to act that way when YOU ARE, SUPPOSEDLY, AN OFFICIAL!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I quit reading your posts after the first few...and yes I am piling on.

I would do everything in my power, if you were in my association, to have you suspended.

There...I feel better now.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

How can you RESPECT this guy!

I respect his following statement. He acknowledges his mistake & aims to do better in the future. What more can he or any of us (who makes mistakes in life) do?

Originally Posted by Judtech

Agree 100% it is a VERY difficult thing to do. 99 times out of 100 I just do my Jerry Tarkanian imitation and gnaw on a towel (even shared a few of those instances on the board) Screwed the pooch on this one. You also bring up a GREAT point that I discussed with fellow referee's a few years ago. I don't know how long you have officiated, but for younger/newer officials it can be a bit intimidating to some to work a game where the AD and/or coach has officiating background. (which sounds like what you were experiencing) They may start second guessing what THEY are doing, and start to think about what the AD/Coach thinks. That is a recipe for failure. It would be akin to when I first started calling and my supervisor would be in the stands watching. Was I making/not making calls for the GAME or for THEM. After awhile, you don't even notice/care if they are there are not. A great take away from this experience for ME is to have that in the back of my mind for 30 year vets not just "newbies".

[Jesse James]

Judtech,

In your coaching position, I wouldn't support your questioning of judgement calls, or your methods in general. But I will agree that when a crew at the varsity level either sets aside a rule, or doesn't know a rule, that someone from the coaching staff ought to be able to make that known to them--and if it has to be an example, so-be-it.

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

[tref]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

But I will agree that when a crew at the varsity level either sets aside a rule, or doesn't know a rule, that someone from the coaching staff ought to be able to make that known to them--and if it has to be an example, so-be-it.

Absolutely! Just as long as that someone is THE HEAD COACH

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

By following whatever protocol that state has set up to deal with complaints about officials? All states have them afaik.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

In a state without assignors, how else are you going to make that point?

Isn't it easier in states without assigners? To make your point, have the AD scratch the official and never hire him, her or them again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

How can you RESPECT this guy!

Would anyone respect any coach that came here and made a post like the OP, gloating about how they intimidated and showed up some obviously weak officials while gaining an unfair advantage like icing the shooter at the same time? Judtech was not posting as an official. He was posting as a coach, and as an assistant coach to boot. That he was also an official only compounds the problem imo. Officials should know better.

JMO

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Would anyone respect any coach that came here and made a post like the OP, gloating about how they intimidated and showed up some obviously weak officials while gaining an unfair advantage like icing the shooter at the same time?
JMO

You are preaching to the Chior Woddy...and if this idiot thought he could find forgiveness in this Church...he came into the wrong sanctuary.

If I was Judtech...I would change my name and start all over again. I, for one, will always see this jerk as a classless, loudmouth, ASSISTANT COACH...that EVEN tried to justify his actions to a REAL group of officials.

Didn't John Wooden say:

"Your REPUTATION is how others PERCEIVE you...your CHARACTER is what you REALLY are."

P.S. Did this guy's wife really use Profanity as the Coach of a bunch of girls? What great role models these two are.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Judtech

As I told the girls yesterday in practice "saturday was a great example of someone BEING right, but not acting right. There is an intrinsic value in knowing you are correct, and sometimes it is best to keep that satisfaction to yourself."

That is the best lesson for everyone to learn from this situation.

My comment about "involving the players in the a$$-ness" was directed at the whole "stand at the 3-point line"...you knew the officials were wrong, but you wanted to show them up. And to do so, you involved your players - they were told by one authority figure to do one thing, and then by another authority figure to do something contradictory. To me - as a teacher, father, coach, and official - that is deplorable. You "used" your players to prove a point. That violates the trust they - and their parents - place in you as a coach.

So I would hope that you not only made your point above about being right, but also apologized for putting them in a situation they should not have been in.

Off my soap box now.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is the best lesson for everyone to learn from this situation.

My comment about "involving the players in the a$$-ness" was directed at the whole "stand at the 3-point line"...you knew the officials were wrong, but you wanted to show them up. And to do so, you involved your players - they were told by one authority figure to do one thing, and then by another authority figure to do something contradictory. To me - as a teacher, father, coach, and official - that is deplorable. You "used" your players to prove a point. That violates the trust they - and their parents - place in you as a coach.

So I would hope that you not only made your point above about being right, but also apologized for putting them in a situation they should not have been in.

Off my soap box now.

Great soap box to be on. I see where you are coming from in your post now. If I may, I would LOVE to share an exchange our team had, I will try (and fail) to make it brief. We only have 3 rules on our team, one of which is "Control what you can control" During our practice meeting one of the players said "Yeah coach you violated Rule #2. Like you always say, you can't control what the official does, but you can control how you respond to it. SO since you broke a rule we have to bench you!" Then it occured to them that since I already am on the bench it wasn't that big a deal, so they thought I should run!!! I told them that since THEY followed rule #2 and I didn't I would give them a 5 Sprint credit they could use any time in practice!!! Kids, just when you think they don't pay attention!

[doubleringer]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Great soap box to be on. I see where you are coming from in your post now. If I may, I would LOVE to share an exchange our team had, I will try (and fail) to make it brief. We only have 3 rules on our team, one of which is "Control what you can control" During our practice meeting one of the players said "Yeah coach you violated Rule #2. Like you always say, you can't control what the official does, but you can control how you respond to it. SO since you broke a rule we have to bench you!" Then it occured to them that since I already am on the bench it wasn't that big a deal, so they thought I should run!!! I told them that since THEY followed rule #2 and I didn't I would give them a 5 Sprint credit they could use any time in practice!!! Kids, just when you think they don't pay attention!

Great story. Nothing like owning up to a mistake yourself to teach students. Good job of taking a bad situation and using it for a learning experience.