Worst luck ever

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by representing

True. I emailed PIAA about it, going to wait for their response within the next day or two.

So you bypassed your local chapter and district rep? You might want to fill them in on your grievance before Dr. Lombardi gives them a call asking for details.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by representing

OK, I'm going to try this one more time. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION...

I am NOT complaining about the game I lost due to the weather. I am complaining about the two games I lost due to one team of both games canceling out due to not enough players (injuries, educational suspensions, etc). Schools should be held accountable for non-weather situations causing a cancellation in games. That is all I am saying.

Why?

Again, the *contract* or *agreement* in place defines what your rights are. Sometimes it's not wise to try to assert those rights.

Those schools *want* to play. They have kids that won't play now, concessions that won't be sold, etc. etc. If they don't have enough players, they don't have enough players. If they have a track record of cancelling late, then don't accept games from them.

Last season, one of my regular schools in football asked me to take a lot of subvarsity dates. The previous season we lost 4 or 5 games (usually JV) when teams decided they had too many injuries and didn't want to play the games -- these were always the visiting teams playing this school. I consider it their right to cancel those games, but like I told the AD, I consider it my right to schedule games that I actually think will go on as scheduled. I took some from him, passed on others (because the visiting schools were repeat offenders). The one thing I hadn't thought about that he communicated to me was *his* frustration in schools cancelling like this.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

OK, I'm going to try this one more time. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION...

I am NOT complaining about the game I lost due to the weather. I am complaining about the two games I lost due to one team of both games canceling out due to not enough players (injuries, educational suspensions, etc). Schools should be held accountable for non-weather situations causing a cancellation in games. That is all I am saying.

And we're saying you're wrong. I've lost games due to non-weather cancellations. It happens all the time around here when a school loses players for various issues (sickness, suspension, transfers, disinterest). Your proposal would mean schools with borderline numbers would simply decide to cancel their seasons before they started, just in case they lost a few players along the way. Why risk having to pay officials for games that might get cancelled if you lose two players off your team?

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Scuba_ref,
ONE of the reasons VIRTUALLY ALL of us officiate is the money. If you argue with this point, my question is, "Do you always RETURN your game fee after the game is over?" If the answer is, "No." Then ONE of the reasons you officiate is to put some money in your pocket.

CMH - Dealing in absolutes one way or the other won't win you many arguments. Of course I don't return EVERY game fee. I do however donate a lot of referee time on court whenever the opportunity presents itself; working the Lion's club scholarship game, giving back the game fee for cancer awareness nights, refereeing church basketball every Saturday for two months. The point is that most of us ref because we love it not because we get paid to do it. When getting paid to do it becomes the major justification then maybe it is time to re-evaluate.

This is partially true also for young officials - I understand that there is a motivation continuum with money at one end and enjoyment at the other. Younger officials may tend to fall towards the money end, but if they get no enjoyment out of it then they are most likely providing a disservice to the teams they officiate.

[RobbyinTN]

When I first started officiating I called a lot of games for free or next to nothing in fees. Why? Well first I loved doing it and secondly I figured it was a way to learn in an environment that was alittle less hectic than varsity ball. I think it made me a better official in the end because I was more focused on calling ball than I was on what level game it was or how much I made.

I don't call ball for the dollars. Yes I like being paid; however, I don't think about the fees first and foremost - it is secondary in my desire to officiate. I officiate as a hobby and it is a hobby that also happens to pay me a little but every Saturday for all of January and February I am calling Upward Basketball games (3-5 a Saturday) for free because I love working with the kids and they can get an experienced official for nothing. Also, I am able to train some other guys/gals to officiate and hopefully they will continue on with officiating as well. I also call some kid's (ages 5-12) rec ball that pays a big $20 a game. It gives me another opportunity to work with the kids and help them learn the sport.

The OP sounds like his primary motivation is $$. If he doesn't like having games cancelled, I am sure McDonalds is hiring and he won't have to worry about having an work night cancelled because a team decided not to play

[Rich]

Personally, I don't think it's our place to tell anyone what the right motivation for officiating is.

Around here, JV and other lower level games in rural districts are wholly filled by guys who are most into the fact that they get $40 and are 5 minutes from home. And those guys are needed.

[Loudwhistle]

[QUOTE=Scuba_ref;714914][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]CMH - Dealing in absolutes one way or the other won't win you many arguments. Of course I don't return EVERY game fee. I do however donate a lot of referee time on court whenever the opportunity presents itself; working the Lion's club scholarship game, giving back the game fee for cancer awareness nights, refereeing church basketball every Saturday for two months. The point is that most of us ref because we love it not because we get paid to do it. When getting paid to do it becomes the major justification then maybe it is time to re-evaluate.

+1

[Adam]

I'm with Rich, we have no business telling others why they should be officiating. I started for the cash in college, and because it was fun. The standard saying is pretty true: "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free, either."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm with Rich, we have no business telling others why they should be officiating. I started for the cash in college, and because it was fun. The standard saying is pretty true: "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free, either."

When I started officiating thirty years ago, I had a young family. We were saving for three college educations, making car payments, and saving for an upgrade from our five room ranch. I would officiate games anywhere, anytime, at any level. If they played games in a bathtub, I would be there to make the toss.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm with Rich, we have no business telling others why they should be officiating. I started for the cash in college, and because it was fun. The standard saying is pretty true: "I don't do this for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free, either."

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When I started officiating thirty years ago, I had a young family. We were saving for three college educations, making car payments, and saving for an upgrade from our five room ranch. I would officiate games anywhere, anytime, at any level. If they played games in a bathtub, I would be there to make the toss.

Mr. Ed,
Have you been beaten enough, yet?

Snaqs statement pretty much sums up how most of us feel. At the same time, for the officials under 30 (and, perhaps, for some others out of a job or under employed at the moment), money is a MAJOR factor. Let us not judge others' situations until we have walked in their boots for a mile. And, just because we walked in those boots 20 years ago doesn't mean we have necessarily earned the right to judge TODAY, either....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

Mr. Ed,
Have you been beaten enough, yet?

Snaqs statement pretty much sums up how most of us feel. At the same time, for the officials under 30 (and, perhaps, for some others out of a job or under employed at the moment), money is a MAJOR factor. Let us not judge others' situations until we have walked in their boots for a mile. And, just because we walked in those boots 20 years ago doesn't mean we have necessarily earned the right to judge TODAY, either....

I won't judge -- I worked games all through college and grad school and my primary motivator was to make money so I could go out or buy beer on the weekends. These days, my day job lets me treat officiating as a zero-sum game. Why else would I drive 180 miles round trip to work a single HS game last night? It got me out of the house, got me some exercise, and I enjoy it (most of the time). The $90 I got certainly doesn't compensate me fully for the time, mileage, and my services, but I'm OK with that.

Making a big deal out of not getting paid for canceled games, though, can cost more money in the long run. If I was an assignor, I'd start using a person like this less if I think he's going to call the state and cause trouble for something that should be handled locally.

[cmhjordan23]

Try showing up for a game and not getting paid at all. I was scheduled to do a soccer game. My crew showed up and visiting team wasn't there. Confusion about start time. Coach didn't give us our checks. Needless to say we contacted AD and got paid. Had another game, I think it was JV soccer again. Showed up on a Saturday morning, contract in hand. No game to officiate. Visiting team couldn't field a JV 2 team. School never told me. Contacted the AD several times. This was 1 year ago. Have yet to see that check. Oh well, only $40.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by cmhjordan23

Try showing up for a game and not getting paid at all. I was scheduled to do a soccer game. My crew showed up and visiting team wasn't there. Confusion about start time. Coach didn't give us our checks. Needless to say we contacted AD and got paid. Had another game, I think it was JV soccer again. Showed up on a Saturday morning, contract in hand. No game to officiate. Visiting team couldn't field a JV 2 team. School never told me. Contacted the AD several times. This was 1 year ago. Have yet to see that check. Oh well, only $40.

That one I'd chase down.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by representing

OK, I'm going to try this one more time. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION...

I am NOT complaining about the game I lost due to the weather. I am complaining about the two games I lost due to one team of both games canceling out due to not enough players (injuries, educational suspensions, etc). Schools should be held accountable for non-weather situations causing a cancellation in games. That is all I am saying.

Don't worry. I'm sure that once the school hears about your complaint, you won't ever have to worry about them cancelling a game on you again.

[RobbyinTN]

I am not trying to tell the OP what his/her motivation should be for officiating - I just don't think that you should be all upset because a game got canceled in advance of your arrival. Had he arrived and no game I think he should be paid but to get a cancelation prior to game day isn't, IMHO, something to get all worked up over.