Can it be corrected administratively???

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

+1

What I'm about to say in support of JR is for general consumption and not directed to any poster in particular.

Officials are human and make mistakes. The rules specify a time frame for correcting mistakes in order to have a fair procedure for all and to keep the game moving. (Actually, several time frames: one for throw-ins, one for "correctable errors," etc.)

The time frame is brief, which is an argument for getting the call right in the first place. We just don't have much time to fix it when we screw it up. If despite our best efforts we screw up and a player fouls out, well, those are the breaks. The player won't remember it in 5 days, much less 5 years.

What's worse is arbitrarily setting aside the rules because an individual official's sense of "fairness" is violated. That's usually what's going on when 2-3 is invoked: "I don't like this outcome, so I'm going to set aside the rules that dictate this outcome and deliver an outcome that I like better." That says the official is bigger than the game. And that's a route to a career doing MS games.

mb,
Let's say in my hypothetical situation that this had been an OHSAA State Final Game --likely to be remembered for more than five days. By book rule, there appears to be little that can be done, here. It is NOT one of the five correctable scoring errors (nor is it a throw-in team "error").

This, in my opinion, comes down to how will the officials handle it. REGARDLESS what is done, the officials have screwed the pooch with the initial call. The question is, are you, as an official, going to attempt to get creative and right your wrong or do you follow the rules from here on out (since obviously you failed to follow them when you assessed the individual technical foul). It is a stretch to call this a "bookkeeping" mistake as it was actually an official's mistake.

Since there are no protests permitted in OHSAA tournament play, the official's error here could likely play a major role in determining the State Champion.

The question here, can the officials get the player rightfully back into the game and follow the rules -- at least not break any of them -- at the same time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

mb,
Let's say in my hypothetical situation that this had been an OHSAA State Final Game --likely to be remembered for more than five days. By book rule, there appears to be little that can be done, here. It is NOT one of the five correctable scoring errors (nor is it a throw-in team "error").

This, in my opinion, comes down to how will the officials handle it. REGARDLESS what is done, the officials have screwed the pooch with the initial call. The question is, are you, as an official, going to attempt to get creative and right your wrong or do you follow the rules from here on out (since obviously you failed to follow them when you assessed the individual technical foul). It is a stretch to call this a "bookkeeping" mistake as it was actually an official's mistake.

Since there are no protests permitted in OHSAA tournament play, the official's error here could likely play a major role in determining the State Champion.

The question here, can the officials get the player rightfully back into the game and follow the rules -- at least not break any of them -- at the same time.

Not under any rule that I am aware of.

Never call what you can't explain....or justify.

[Raymond]

Coach A fails to list B32 on his roster. 2 minutes into the game B32 commits a foul. It is now discovered that B32 is not in the book. B32 is added and the officials assess an "indirect" technical against the HC and revoke his privilege to stand in the coaching box. At halftime the officials check the rulebook and realize they erred in assessing an "indirect" against the HC.

The officials are committed to the "indirect" and can't correct it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coach A fails to list B32 on his roster. 2 minutes into the game B32 commits a foul. It is now discovered that B32 is not in the book. B32 is added and the officials assess an "indirect" technical against the HC and revoke his privilege to stand in the coaching box. At halftime the officials check the rulebook and realize they erred in assessing an "indirect" against the HC.

The officials are committed to the "indirect" and can't correct it?

What rule would you use to correct it?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Coach A fails to list B32 on his roster. 2 minutes into the game B32 commits a foul. It is now discovered that B32 is not in the book. B32 is added and the officials assess an "indirect" technical against the HC and revoke his privilege to stand in the coaching box. At halftime the officials check the rulebook and realize they erred in assessing an "indirect" against the HC.

The officials are committed to the "indirect" and can't correct it?

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What rule would you use to correct it?

If I'm the "R" I'm going to make it right and then take whatever heat comes my way from the assignor, rules backing or not.

[APG]

Originally Posted by badnewsref

if i'm the "r" i'm going to make it right and then take whatever heat comes my way from the assignor, rules backing or not.

+1

[CLH]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What rule would you use to correct it?

"Sometimes you just have to referee!" -someone on this board

[tref]

Not sure if anyone intercepted the calling official prior to reporting in the OP, if not, this is one of the many reasons why we should come together first & talk it out.

[Upward ref]

Originally Posted by tref

Not sure if anyone intercepted the calling official prior to reporting in the OP, if not, this is one of the many reasons why we should come together first & talk it out.

As a newbie I feel this is very important . especially as we're learning communication with partner(s). You experienced guys and gals can communicate a lot with subtle looks and gestures etc that I don't yet pick up on , as well as partner to partner signals. And learning/trying to use proper mechanics . It's all part of the "don't rush" advice I've recieved here in previous threads , I need (and mostly have been getting) a few extra seconds sometimes on "normal " plays and procedures , more so on more complicated and important calls . If us newbies forget or mess up a mechanic , our partners don't know what's going on either! ( 2 shots or not, shot counts or not, spot of throw in, who's the foul on,warnings that were supposed to have been issued ...) I also had charged a t to a player instead of the team, knowing the throw in/plane violation rule, but messing it up anyway.This time it didn't result in a dq, but could have. Whats automatic with you , I may need to confirm or be corrected on. Then we won't need to "undo it" later in the game Maybe even the old heads need to take as much time as necessary to get it right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CLH

"Sometimes you just have to referee!" -someone on this board

"And sometimes you have to referee by the rules"- me

"And that why officiating is an art as well as being a science"- me also.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"And sometimes you have to referee by the rules". (Jurassic Referee)

"And that why officiating is an art as well as being a science". (Jurassic Referee)

True. It's in "Bartlett's Familiar Quotations". They're in the chapter entitled "Quotes From Hell".

[just another ref]

In the OP, B1 has a foul recorded in the book which he did not commit. I consider this a bookkeeping error, regardless of what caused it. Now B1 no longer has 5 fouls. No reason he can't play. JMO

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

REGARDLESS what is done, the officials have screwed the pooch with the initial call.

In other words, if you got the rule right in the first place, you wouldn't have this mess. This is why these rules are pounded into our heads.

Still, I know people that would want this situation "fixed" and reversed, under the battle cry of "common sense."