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Old Tue Nov 14, 2000, 08:09pm
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This situation is somewhat similar to the NFL's use of instant replay challenges . . .

One minute left in fourth quarter with clock running. Score A:71 B:67 - B has the ball and no time-outs. Team B's on the bench stats person has conducted a recount (they're playing in Florida :-) ) of the score, and believes it should be A:71 B:69. Coach of B calls a time-out for a conference at the table. It is shown that the score is 71-69. Is the technical foul still assessed?

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Old Tue Nov 14, 2000, 08:40pm
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Question No

I am out of town in the great state of Texas and do not have my rulebook handy at the moment. I believe that you do not give a T for that. But I could be wrong, but right of type I do not see anything wrong. I could be getting this mixed up with the football rule.
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Old Tue Nov 14, 2000, 09:07pm
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If the time out was called to correct an error, and the request is "upheld", then no time outs are granted, therefore no T. Now if the score was correct, then T.

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Old Tue Nov 14, 2000, 10:37pm
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If B is talking about a book keeping error or
a difference between what is on the scoreboard
and what is in the *official* book then
that is not 1 of the 5 correctable & the TO is
charged to B, along with the T. This is regardless
of whether he is right or wrong. If B is claiming
he wasn't credited with a goal pr 2-10 and it's
within the time limit then the TO is not assessed *only*
if he is correct. Otherwise he gets a TO & the T.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 12:07am
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Mark,

This is a bookkeeping error, it can be corrected any time until the final score is apporved by the referee. 2-11-11

B would not be charged a TO or a T since he was correct.

Tony

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 15th, 2000 at 08:46 AM]
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 01:33am
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I think the point is that a coach can request a timeout to correct an error at any time. Yes, a scoring error can be corrected at any time. (The failure to count a 3-point shot, by the official, may not be corrected at any time.)

I suspect the letter of the rule is an error in the score book, but I would not exclude the score board until someone (association officer/evaluator) makes me differentiate between the two.

When a coach request the timeout for the error, then the referee and both coaches resolve the issue at the scorer's table. If in fact an error was found, then no timeout is charged and return to the game. OTOH, if there was no error, then the coach is charged with a timeout (full). (I don't think the rule prohibits using a 30-second one if no full timeouts remain.) If the coach did not have a timeout, then it is a technical foul.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 08:31am
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Since this situation is not one of the correctable errors, the timeout procedure would not be the way to proceed.

In this case, if there was a doubt as to the accuracy of the score, I would call an official's timeout and check it out. At that point in the game it would be critical to have the score correct, and it should be the officials' responsibility to do so, not the players/coaches.

A scoring error can be corrected at any time until we leave the visual confines.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 08:34am
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Excess Time outs/Correctable error

Rule 2-10-e... Erroneously counting or cancelling a score.
Both scenarios I am reading state that it is an officials
error. Also it must be recognized within the proper time
limit(before the first dead ball becomes live after starting
the game clock)
Rule 2-11-11..Correct a scoring or bookkeeping mistake anytime before the ref approves the final score.
Both scenarios indicate a bookkeeping error.
Rule 5-12...Excessive timeout will be granted at the expense of an indirect technical foul.
Rule 9-6..Clock is stopped by an official, responding to
official scorer's signal to grant a head coach's request
to the possibility of correcting an error as in Rule 2-10
or correcting or preventing a scoring,alt.possession mistake needs to be rectified.
Rule 9-10 seems to be pretty broad. However I believe the
coach would have to have a timeout available, whether he/she
is right or wrong to avoid a T for excess timeouts.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 09:27am
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Richard Ogg, Why do you say the official can not correct a three point shot? I have to agree with rpwall, officials responsibility to asure the score is correct. I don't think it matters weather the score was wrong or not, i wouldn't call a TO for the team. I would stop the game, get the score correct and play on.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 09:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Mark,

Why are you asking about assessing a technical foul? What has B done to warrant a technical foul?

BTW, if this is a bookkeeping error, it can be corrected any time until the final score is apporved by the referee. 2-11-11

Tony
Tony,

B gets a T because he has no timeouts left.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 09:43am
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Dan,

I kept reading it and reading it and couldn't understand what I was missing! I thought that's what Mark intended but I kept missing it in the post. Thanks!

Tony


rpwall,

A sitaution doesn't have to be a correctable error listed under 2-10 for it to qualify as a reason to call a timeout. For example, if there was an error with the direction of the AP arrow, a coach could request a timeout to correct it. If he was correct, he would not be charged a TO. The sitch that Mark is talking about would qualify.

Tony
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 10:04am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef


rpwall,

A sitaution doesn't have to be a correctable error listed under 2-10 for it to qualify as a reason to call a timeout. For example, if there was an error with the direction of the AP arrow, a coach could request a timeout to correct it. If he was correct, he would not be charged a TO. The sitch that Mark is talking about would qualify.

Tony
Tony,
You are correct. In the situation described, I am going to try to find a way to handle it via an official's timeout, though. If Team B has the ball and Team B raises the question, they are not getting an advantage by stopping play and allowing Team A to set their defense. So to avoid a hiccup where after the game ends we find out the score is wrong, I would rather take the burden of ensuring it is correct beforehand. I would keep the players on the court away from their benches though, so that it is not equivalent to a timeout. SInce I have the responsibility to approve the score, I want to be sure there are no changes after the buzzer sounds.
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 10:29am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Dan,

I kept reading it and reading it and couldn't understand what I was missing! I thought that's what Mark intended but I kept missing it in the post. Thanks!

Tony


rpwall,

A sitaution doesn't have to be a correctable error listed under 2-10 for it to qualify as a reason to call a timeout. For example, if there was an error with the direction of the AP arrow, a coach could request a timeout to correct it. If he was correct, he would not be charged a TO. The sitch that Mark is talking about would qualify.

Tony
Tony, are you saying under the rules a coach can call
TO to correct an error (under 2-10 or not) and *not* be
assessed a TO if the error is not correctable per 2-10?
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 08:09pm
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No. I'm saying that a coach can request a timeout to request a correction, other than a 2-10 correctable error, and he would not be charged a timeout if he was correct.

Reference 10-5-1c, 5.10.1E,
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Old Wed Nov 15, 2000, 09:55pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
No. I'm saying that a coach can request a timeout to request a correction, other than a 2-10 correctable error, and he would not be charged a timeout if he was correct.

Reference 10-5-1c, 5.10.1E,
Gotcha, thanks. Also see 5-8-4, 5-11-3 Exception 2
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