# of games

[GoodwillRef]

I live in SE WI and we have about 150-200 high Schools with an hours drive of my house. We do not have boys/girls varsity DH on a regular basis.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I live in SE WI and we have about 150-200 high Schools with an hours drive of my house. We do not have boys/girls varsity DH on a regular basis.

It would be great if we did. We could work both games with 3-person crews and the gyms would always be packed. When I lived in TN, we played the GV at 6:15PM and the BV right afterwards (usually jumping between 7:45PM and 8PM).

Of course back then (1995) we only got $60 for working both games 2-person (total). I'd do it today 3-person for $100 or so.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It would be great if we did. We could work both games with 3-person crews and the gyms would always be packed. When I lived in TN, we played the GV at 6:15PM and the BV right afterwards (usually jumping between 7:45PM and 8PM).

Of course back then (1995) we only got $60 for working both games 2-person (total). I'd do it today 3-person for $100 or so.

I would love to do it for $100 or so. TSSAA sets the fees the schools pay for varsity contests. $80 for GV/BV double header. TN board of regents passed a $5 increase in the Summer, first increase in 7 years then took it back away the week before schools started.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

I would love to do it for $100 or so. TSSAA sets the fees the schools pay for varsity contests. $80 for GV/BV double header. TN board of regents passed a $5 increase in the Summer, first increase in 7 years then took it back away the week before schools started.

You only get $80 for a varsity doubleheader? We make $110 for a varsity DH and $100 for a JV/V DH.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by zm1283

You only get $80 for a varsity doubleheader? We make $110 for a varsity DH and $100 for a JV/V DH.

And to rub salt into the wound, no mileage pay. The association covers a large geographic area. I had a game a couple of weeks ago that was a 2 Hr and 20 Min. drive.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

I would love to do it for $100 or so. TSSAA sets the fees the schools pay for varsity contests. $80 for GV/BV double header. TN board of regents passed a $5 increase in the Summer, first increase in 7 years then took it back away the week before schools started.

This is a simple case of the law of supply and demand. None of the officials is required to take any particular assignment -- assuming all are independent contractors as opposed to employees.

Therefore, the BoR can set the fee they will pay at anything they like. It doesn't mean that ANYONE has to take those games! If $80 is not reasonable, then officials can pass on the HS games and do something else. On the other hand, so long as officials are accepting the games, $80 is the going rate.

It takes two to create a contract.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

This is a simple case of the law of supply and demand. None of the officials is required to take any particular assignment -- assuming all are independent contractors as opposed to employees.

Therefore, the BoR can set the fee they will pay at anything they like. It doesn't mean that ANYONE has to take those games! If $80 is not reasonable, then officials can pass on the HS games and do something else. On the other hand, so long as officials are accepting the games, $80 is the going rate.

It takes two to create a contract.

The problem is with the state setting the rates and associations locking in agreements with the TSSAA and with the schools. Your association doesn't *have* to service that school 2+ hours away -- at some point someone decided to.

$80 for 2 games? Things haven't changed in Tennessee. I bet they pay more now for 1 varsity football game. A shame.

[biggravy]

Kansas sucks for the fact that schools are limited to 20 games not counting postseason. All of mine are GV/BV doubleheaders and thus far I have worked 5 nights for a total of 10 games. Have 10 more or so nights scheduled so looking at 30 games when the season ends.

Contrast this to when I was in Arkansas/Memphis area: Arkansas small schools started BBall in October if they didn't have football. It was split JH/HS V doubleheaders, almost all three whistle, with girls on M/Th and boys on T/Fr. It was not unusual to do over 100 games in a season, not counting any weekend or wreck ball. I miss it.

[RobbyinTN]

I guess I look at it differently. I do this as a hobby and not a source of income. As long as my fees pays my expenses (always does plus some left over) I don't complain. I don't have a problem with what TSSAA pays - although MS is actually a better deal if you are strictly talking pay because you get $65 for a DH and usually the games are within 10-15 minutes of you house as opposed to a HS that you may have to travel a hour or more one way.

I figure when I get to the point where I don't think it is worth it, I will quit. But how many hobbies actually pay you to participate? All my other hobbies seem to always be costing me lot of $$

By the way I average 4-6 games a week from the beginning of the season until the end of it so I work all I want to work.

Robby

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

This is a simple case of the law of supply and demand. None of the officials is required to take any particular assignment -- assuming all are independent contractors as opposed to employees.

Therefore, the BoR can set the fee they will pay at anything they like. It doesn't mean that ANYONE has to take those games! If $80 is not reasonable, then officials can pass on the HS games and do something else. On the other hand, so long as officials are accepting the games, $80 is the going rate.

It takes two to create a contract.

Have you ever heard of a "unilateral contract"? A unilateral contract is where one party has all the power. They are illegal in insurance and some other industries.

TSSAA requires referees belong to a local association, require the schools to use an association to supply referees, assign +/or approve the schools serviced by each association. TSSAA appoints the assigning officer and supervisor of each association.

Any referee who turns down a game that was assigned on an unblocked date in our association has 3 other assignments removed. So no, short of not refereeing High School at all there is no "two parties to a contract" freedom in TN.

In the past a significant portion of an association attempted to start a new association to advocate for better pay and mileage compensation. TSSAA simply refused to sanction their elected assignor and supervisor and reminded the schools that if they used referees from an unsanctioned association that they would have to forfeit their games.

Would I rather get paid $80 and get some exercise and enjoy being around the game? Yes I would. Is there any sibilance of "independent contract" or free market principle in the "unilateral" nature of TSSAA policies? NO.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Would I rather get paid $80 and get some exercise and enjoy being around the game? Yes I would. Is there any sibilance of "independent contract" or free market principle in the "unilateral" nature of TSSAA policies? NO.

This isn't anything close to a unilateral contract. Every contract comes with terms and conditions. If you don't accept those of TSSAA contracts, then don't accept or work the games.

I never understand why people think they have the right to work school contests without complying with the terms of the contract. A free market means that the TSSAA is free to require whatever it wants for its $80 games, and you're free to decline the bargain.

And 'sibilance' is a kind of hiss. You want 'semblance'.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This isn't anything close to a unilateral contract. Every contract comes with terms and conditions. If you don't accept those of TSSAA contracts, then don't accept or work the games.

I never understand why people think they have the right to work school contests without complying with the terms of the contract. A free market means that the TSSAA is free to require whatever it wants for its $80 games, and you're free to decline the bargain.

And 'sibilance' is a kind of hiss. You want 'semblance'.

Thanks for the correction of my Homonym error.

A free market means that each party has at least some influence on the terms of the agreement. The B of A is totally populated by School administrators. There is no representation of the referees, the "other" party. TSSAA by sanctioning both the referee associations and the validity of the contests enforce the will of only one party to the contracts.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Have you ever heard of a "unilateral contract"? A unilateral contract is where one party has all the power. They are illegal in insurance and some other industries.

TSSAA requires referees belong to a local association, require the schools to use an association to supply referees, assign +/or approve the schools serviced by each association. TSSAA appoints the assigning officer and supervisor of each association.

Any referee who turns down a game that was assigned on an unblocked date in our association has 3 other assignments removed. So no, short of not refereeing High School at all there is no "two parties to a contract" freedom in TN.

In the past a significant portion of an association attempted to start a new association to advocate for better pay and mileage compensation. TSSAA simply refused to sanction their elected assignor and supervisor and reminded the schools that if they used referees from an unsanctioned association that they would have to forfeit their games.

Would I rather get paid $80 and get some exercise and enjoy being around the game? Yes I would. Is there any sibilance of "independent contract" or free market principle in the "unilateral" nature of TSSAA policies? NO.

The policies in TN are, IMO, onerous. As an official you belong to an association (and I believe only one). They alone decide what games you work. The association I was in set all policies like the one where someone who works varsity games is not allowed to take games assigned by the association (and they assign all of them) at other levels.

When I was promoted to varsity ball there, I saw my number of dates drop from 4 a week to 2 a week and even when there were MS dates to fill I could not work them unless they got so desparate that they *had* to fill them. There was no freedom of movement for officials unless you moved to another association, which (of course) had its own problems.

And anyone that knows me knows I don't give a flip about the money. My point is that they pay officials more to work one football game ($85)than 2 varsity basketball games ($80).

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by ref2coach

Have you ever heard of a "unilateral contract"? A unilateral contract is where one party has all the power. They are illegal in insurance and some other industries.

TSSAA requires referees belong to a local association, require the schools to use an association to supply referees, assign +/or approve the schools serviced by each association. TSSAA appoints the assigning officer and supervisor of each association.

Any referee who turns down a game that was assigned on an unblocked date in our association has 3 other assignments removed. So no, short of not refereeing High School at all there is no "two parties to a contract" freedom in TN.

In the past a significant portion of an association attempted to start a new association to advocate for better pay and mileage compensation. TSSAA simply refused to sanction their elected assignor and supervisor and reminded the schools that if they used referees from an unsanctioned association that they would have to forfeit their games.

Would I rather get paid $80 and get some exercise and enjoy being around the game? Yes I would. Is there any semblance of "independent contract" or free market principle in the "unilateral" nature of TSSAA policies? NO.

My point to you is that as long as there are enough officials to take these games -- it does not matter WHY they take the games (hobby, short on cash, love the exercise, etc.) -- $80 will be the number.

At the point when enough officials decide to do MS games, indoor (outdoor) soccer games, etc., the rate will change. It has to change -- unless they want to go to 1-person crews. until then....well, $80 may not seem so bad.

[ref2coach]

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef

My point to you is that as long as there are enough officials to take these games -- it does not matter WHY they take the games (hobby, short on cash, love the exercise, etc.) -- $80 will be the number.

At the point when enough officials decide to do MS games, indoor (outdoor) soccer games, etc., the rate will change. It has to change -- unless they want to go to 1-person crews. until then....well, $80 may not seem so bad.

Sounds like options but reality intrudes. MS games are also assigned by the approved associations. TSSAA also sanctions high school Soccer. I am a soccer referee also. The other Winter sports provide very little opportunity to break a sweat while refereeing. Wrestling or Bowling anyone.