Why we avoid conflicts of interest

[Adam]

Originally Posted by doubleringer

Couldn't agree more. It's just another foul. I think we all put ourselves and fellow officials in a bad spot when we don't address sportsmanship when warranted. Here in Iowa we have a adaptation to the coach's box and I'm NOT a fan. They can only stand during dead clock periods and only in front of their seat. It takes away opportunities for the coaches to coach their players and us to communicate in appropriate ways with coaches. In my opinion, this rule came about because too many officials were letting coaches be demonstrative and out of line.

Interesting. If you're right, it was only happening on the girls side, because the rule as you state is more lenient than it was for boys when I was there. Girls had the coaching box, boys didn't. They have the same rule now, right?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Tonight I had the championship of a holiday tournament, 3-person girls.

The dates on this tourney changed and instead of having a first round game (4 teams, 2 nights) we ended up with the championship.

My regular 3-person crew has a guy who teaches at one of the high schools. After the games were played last night, he noticed that he would end up working the school where he teaches, so he arranged a switch into the consolation game and I get one of those officials.

Fast forward to the second half. That school is getting waxed. I call a shooting foul on one of their players at the other end of the floor from their bench. I report and I hear the coach going on and on about this one call in a 20-point game.

I decide I need to deal with this, so I step into the backcourt where I'm greeted with, "that's a terrible call - I need your address so I can send you a tape so you'll see how horrible that was."

I'm kinder and gentler, so I walked away from him. He kept going, using words like terrible and brutal. I'm not a fan of the stop sign, but I used one here, figuring maybe he'll see that on film. He continued, I whacked.

I should've whacked him after the address remark. I'm getting soft.

Glad the school's teacher wasn't on the game, although I missed working with him.

Why are you not a fan of the "STOP SIGN"? Just wondering.

[GoodwillRef]

By the way, has anyone ever got a tape from a catch after he/she says they are going to send you one?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why are you not a fan of the "STOP SIGN"? Just wondering.

Because unless it's a recognized sign in your particular area, it doesn't work.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Because unless it's a recognized sign in your particular area, it doesn't work.

I you give a coach a stop sign and say "this is you warning!" How is that not universal?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I you give a coach a stop sign and say "this is you warning!" How is that not universal?

It's not a universal practice all over the country. I think the meaning of it is crystal clear, but it takes quite a bit for me to get to the point where I draw a visible line on the court and essentially (in some coaches' minds) dare them to step over it.

And that's probably why I don't like it. I don't like when coaches show me up and there's a part of me that thinks that me putting my hand up for the coach (and everyone else) to see puts a coach into a corner, and there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered rat.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not a universal practice all over the country. I think the meaning of it is crystal clear, but it takes quite a bit for me to get to the point where I draw a visible line on the court and essentially (in some coaches' minds) dare them to step over it.

And that's probably why I don't like it. I don't like when coaches show me up and there's a part of me that thinks that me putting my hand up for the coach (and everyone else) to see puts a coach into a corner, and there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered rat.

I view it as a tool to let the coach know we have had enough and they will choose to go down one of two roads. Road one: try to correct their behavior and move on. Road two: leads straight to Whackland! It is their choice.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not a universal practice all over the country. I think the meaning of it is crystal clear, but it takes quite a bit for me to get to the point where I draw a visible line on the court and essentially (in some coaches' minds) dare them to step over it.

And that's probably why I don't like it. I don't like when coaches show me up and there's a part of me that thinks that me putting my hand up for the coach (and everyone else) to see puts a coach into a corner, and there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered rat.

Putting up a stop sign and saying "that's enough" are the exact same thing imo. The intent of both should be to put a coach in a corner. If the coach wants to ignore either that verbal or non-verbal final warning, he does so at his own risk. And it's also now on me if I fail to follow up on that "final" warning if challenged.

JMO

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not a universal practice all over the country. I think the meaning of it is crystal clear, but it takes quite a bit for me to get to the point where I draw a visible line on the court and essentially (in some coaches' minds) dare them to step over it.

And that's probably why I don't like it. I don't like when coaches show me up and there's a part of me that thinks that me putting my hand up for the coach (and everyone else) to see puts a coach into a corner, and there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered rat.

Rich -

You are right on brother !!!!! I hate to keep using "NBA Philosophies" with regard to NHFS / NCAA, but Scott Foster has told a bunch of us to put our hands down by our hips, more along the lines of an "easy coach".

Giving the stop sign (when two adults are involved) is absurd. We wouldn't want it and why should we treat another adult like a child.

Just think that too many of us think because we put on the stripes, it gives us
unlimited authority whenever we choose.......

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Because unless it's a recognized sign in your particular area, it doesn't work.

Disagree completely. It serves it's function if it's used properly. It's a non-verbal warning, and just like a verbal warning you have to follow up if you want it to be effective.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree completely. It serves it's function if it's used properly. It's a non-verbal warning, and just like a verbal warning you have to follow up if you want it to be effective.

I measure success on how many times it's actually worked in quieting the coach without a T. Verbal warnings work often for me; I've never had the stop sign work. It's led to a T every time I've used it.

I'm not saying others shouldn't use it; it works for some and in some areas it's actually expected. But like Rich (and others), I'm not a fan.

I think it's overly dismissive and unnecessarily inflammatory.

Note in response to Rich's post, the term "success" as I use it doesn't apply to me so much as the tactic.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've never had the stop sign work. It's led to a T every time I've used it.

Are you sure that isn't the coach's fault and not the stop sign's fault?

There's no real real difference between a verbal final warning and a visual final warning imo. In both cases, we can't control what happens next. And in both cases we simply react to what happens next.

[TheOracle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I measure success on how many times it's actually worked in quieting the coach without a T. Verbal warnings work often for me; I've never had the stop sign work. It's led to a T every time I've used it.

I'm not saying others shouldn't use it; it works for some and in some areas it's actually expected. But like Rich (and others), I'm not a fan.

I think it's overly dismissive and unnecessarily inflammatory.

Note in response to Rich's post, the term "success" as I use it doesn't apply to me so much as the tactic.

That is the single greatest post I have ever seen on this site. That is taking care of the game, and illustrates brains controlling the "stones".

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Disagree completely. It serves it's function if it's used properly. It's a non-verbal warning, and just like a verbal warning you have to follow up if you want it to be effective.

+1

...I swear JR, I had not read this post before I posted earlier today about using the STOP sign...I think I even used the word effect.(Great minds think alike?)

I know, I know, Shut Up!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why are you not a fan of the "STOP SIGN"? Just wondering.

I've found that it has more potential to inflame than actually stop the behavior I want stopped. Last night I knew that it was either going to stop the behavior or lead to a T. The coach chose door number 2.

Truth is, I should've whacked him earlier. My 2 regular partners (one on the game, one not because of the conflict) both said I gave him more rope than they would've. Kinder and gentler isn't always the right response, I guess.

The one thing I'm always reminded of is that the people side of this bidness is the hardest thing we deal with.

I don't think I had 2 coach technicals all last season and I've had 2 now before January 1. C'est la vie.