If I could change one rule, it would be....

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Doesn't mean we're fighting, dude. It's called arguing a point and we do it all the time here.

And yes, you did spin it. No one has advocated calling "the tap on the back or arm when the dribbler has clearly passed the defender," or "let the defense stop the clock by calling everything."

We advocate that:

1 - The NFHS, NCAA, FIBA, and the NBA all recognize that strategic fouling is part of the game of basketball.

2- When you know the defense is trying to commit a strategic foul, call the first significant contact so that the contact doesn't escalate.

Finally, don't call me sir.

(Not talking to you, but just as good a place as any to jump in....)

Of course that's what I meant, too. I'm not calling that tap with the ball handler past the defender at *any* point of the game and certainly not here, either.

But there are fouls near the end of the game where, had they happened earlier, I would've passed and hesitated to see if the ball handler could play through the contact. Big difference is that early in the game, the defender is trying to avoid picking up the foul and will immediately back off if he's close to getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Late in the game, the contact will escalate (normally) until we call the foul. That first bump, well, I see no reason to see if A can play through it. Because if I do, the next contact could lead to injury, retaliation, or worse.

If we have a timeout, we'll be getting together and saying, "They're going to be trying to foul. Let's get the first one."

Regarding intentional fouls -- I see no reason to be a pioneer. I call them when the game and the NFHS expects them to be called.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Regarding intentional fouls -- I see no reason to be a pioneer. I call them when the game and the NFHS expects them to be called.

Great discussion folks, really enjoying this one.

Rich, I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one. Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Great discussion folks, really enjoying this one.

Rich, I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one. Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

The best part of working varsity ball is that you rarely see that level of stupidity from players and when you do, the coach will usually be on the player, not you.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

The best part of working varsity ball is that you rarely see that level of stupidity from players and when you do, the coach will usually be on the player, not you.

I certainly hear you on that one. Most of the JV and even Sophomore games I've worked have been worlds better than the Jr High and Freshman games, in terms of both the quality of the partners and the coaches. No big surprise there, I realize.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Expected I suppose but my partner also told me in no uncertain terms that was a bad call.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

You really have to take middle school coaches and partners with a grain of salt.

And SOME middle school partners.

[chseagle]

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

Some of us do both in the same night.

[chseagle]

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Some of us do both in the same night.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I've seen it done before.

What I'm meaning it that it should be required that during V games that the grey shirts be worn.

Why, chseagle? What difference does it make what color the shirts are...as long as they are uniform?

Heck, we were in black/white the other night at your school...was that so bad?

...and for the record, many of us have both gray shirts and black/white shirts.

(It makes you communicate with your partners before the game...)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V games.

All table crew must be in some sort of identifying attire.

All shiny-like.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chseagle

All floor officials be in grey shirts for V games, stripes in sub-V .

That's how we do it in one of the chapters I belong to. I have no idea why either but I suspect we are transitioning to all grey for every level.

[chseagle]

Welpe it was meant as a joke as a way to distinguish who's a veteran official & who's a 1st/2nd year official (rookie).

Originally Posted by Welpe

That's how we do it in one of the chapters I belong to. I have no idea why either but I suspect we are transitioning to all grey for every level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Welpe it was meant as a joke as a way to distinguish who's a veteran official & who's a 1st/2nd year official (rookie).

And no one got the joke because it's not just 1st/2nd year officials doing JV games.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Welpe it was meant as a joke as a way to distinguish who's a veteran official & who's a 1st/2nd year official (rookie).

It's impossible to tell the difference between your lame jokes and your lame posts.

[bainsey]

Thanks, Tim. Well said.

Originally Posted by Welpe

I called one last year in a middle school game when a team was fouling late in the game. The player grabbed his opponent and bear hugged him big time. Easy intentional in my view but boy did the fouling team's coach come unglued on that one.

I had a similar one at a similar level some time ago. I report the INT, look at the coach for his question, and with a strong glare, he states, "You DON'T make that call at the end of a game!"

Clearly, the younger coach was operating from a myth. All we can do is battle these myths by doing what's right.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Finally, don't call me sir.

If you say so, but I find it interesting that request comes from the Carolinas, where I spent my teen years and learned to be respectful like that.