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As noted above, your opinion, which I am sure is shared by others, is not supported by rule.
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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The OP talks about "advantageous contact." Well, what's advantageous can be a matter or opinion and judgment. In some cases, whether or not the ball goes in can be part of deciding whether or not the contact was indeed advantageous. In certain situations, I will factor in whether or not the ball went in. And I think this is what the OP was getting at. Obvious contact, of course, you have a whistle no matter what. But there are instances where there is marginal contact and you have to decide whether or not it's advantageous. |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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To paraphrase and expand the OP: As A1 goes up to shoot, B1 grabs his arm with such force that he is spun sideways. A1 is still able to muscle the ball up and into the basket. Since the shot went in, should the contact be ignored? NO WAY
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
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Maybe he mispoke when he said "advantageous." Because what I am talking about, and I assume the OP and JRutledge are too, is situations where there is marginal contact and you take into account whether or not the ball went in to decide if it was indeed contact that was advantageous. |
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This garbage about waiting to see if the ball goes in and passing on a foul if it does is a reason why we as officials get a bad rap from outside observers. Quit trying to be so damn philosophical and just call illegal contact as it should be called. If the ball goes in in the situation in the OP, tough luck for Team B who fouled the shooter I guess. Maybe they'll learn next time.
In our area, we have been instructed to call illegal contact and throw "advantage/disadvantage" out the window. We are told that we will never get in trouble for calling fouls as opposed to "passing" on "marginal contact". Also, I VERY rarely if ever hear from coaches during games that we're calling the game too tightly. |
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You were already told in the original post that the contact was advantageous. Bainsey already made that decision for you. That was his opinion and judgment. Are you saying that bainsey lied to you...and us? RIF! |
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If you want to discuss whether marginal contact on a shot should be a foul or not, you need to start a brand new thread. That particular discussion has got dickity-boo to do with this thread. It's 2 completely different and disparate discussions. As I said, reading is fundamental. And comprehension is also necessary. |
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We do have to decide if "marginal contact" is a foul. But when the contact occurs is the point where we have to decide whether that marginal contact was incidental or illegal contact. But that decision is solely dependant on the actual contact, not whether the ball went in or not after the contact. There's just too many factors involved to adjudicate the play that way...the athleticism of the shooter, the strength of the shooter, the determination of the shooter, etc. We should always be striving for calling uniformity for these types of plays from beginning to end and at both ends of the court. You can't possibly do that if there is a variation in the shooters with regards to their individual athleticism, strength, determination, etc. How can anybody possibly justify calling a foul on a play just because the shooter wasn't as strong as another player in muscling the ball into the basket after being similarly fouled with the identical contact on a play that was previously no-called? We are also trying to get our guys to do exactly what you guys have been instructed to do. Decide whether the contact was illegal or not at the point of contact, and then try to call it that way uniformly at both ends from beginning to end. Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 08:58am. |
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I think.... zm1283 should clarify that in case I be thinkin' wrongly. |
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