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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 10:54pm
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It all goes by in a flash.

Rule 4-25-1 says a held ball occurs when: "Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

But what about the situation where A is already in control of the ball when B puts hands on? Somewhere along a continuum, it would appear, at least the following things can happen:

1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

This, and other conundrums both real and imaginary, are addressed, if not explained away, in my new rules book "Rational Basketball".




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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:12pm
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Thumbs down

IMHO, most of your conundrums are imaginary.

The rule says "control," not "player control," not "team control," but simply "control."

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Old Sun Jan 15, 2006, 11:36pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
This, and other conundrums both real and imaginary, are addressed, if not explained away, in my new rules book "Rational Basketball"....
Which I'll buy a copy of as soon as my association adopts "Rational Basketball" as our ruleset.
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Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 03:25am
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Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 10:32am
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Does the rules book say Player Control and/or Team Control

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
IMHO, most of your conundrums are imaginary.

The rule says "control," not "player control," not "team control," but simply "control."

Does the rules book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those things? That would be good.




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Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 10:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.
Oh, you say that to all the girls.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.
Oh, you say that to all the girls.
Sorry if I confused you with a little common sense....
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 06:57pm
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Does the rules book

Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
1. A, feeling a tug on the ball, holds tight . . . and travels.

2. B gains enough hold on the ball that - despite there being no explicit support that I know of in the Rules - officials consider that A is no longer 'in control', and there is then the possibility that "control cannot be obtained without undue roughness."

1) Call A1 for traveling.

2) Call a held ball and go to the AP.

There, that wasn't too hard now, was it?

Always glad to help on these difficult situations.
Oh, you say that to all the girls.
Sorry if I confused you with a little common sense....
Do you know, does the Rules Book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those defined terms?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2006, 07:22pm
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Re: Does the rules book

Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
[/B]
Do you know, does the Rules Book say Player Control and/or Team Control every time it means those defined terms? [/B][/QUOTE]What difference does it make if there is no question as to the actual purpose, intent and application of the rule?

JR. Vote for me. I'll make sure that all rules remain rational.
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