Out of bounds call

[random]

A1 saves a ball heading out of bounds and hit B1 who was standing out of bounds. I was told that it would be B1's team ball because B1, already established out of bounds, is considered out of play as if he were a pole or a bench. I continued, if that's the case, couldn't B1 contest and prevent A1 from saving the ball, and the guy said B1 cannot interfere with A1 saving the ball because B1 is "out of play" and such an offense is "a flagrant". Could someone clarify this? Thank you, gents.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by random

A1 saves a ball heading out of bounds and hit B1 who was standing out of bounds. I was told that it would be B1's team ball because B1, already established out of bounds, is considered out of play as if he were a pole or a bench. I continued, if that's the case, couldn't B1 contest and prevent A1 from saving the ball, and the guy said B1 cannot interfere with A1 saving the ball because B1 is "out of play" and such an offense is "a flagrant". Could someone clarify this? Thank you, gents.

You were told wrong. A's ball.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by random

A1 saves a ball heading out of bounds and hit B1 who was standing out of bounds. I was told that it would be B1's team ball because B1, already established out of bounds, is considered out of play as if he were a pole or a bench.

See NFHS rule 7-2-!&2.

[random]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

See NFHS rule 7-2-!&2.

Well, that's the thing, I'm not an official, just a player who plays pickup ball with a guy who carries a rulebook with these and seems like he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to rules, but I respect the game and everything you guys do, so I trust your words over his.

I'm reading old posts and it just boggles my mind how much rules there are in the game. Some could be pretty useful. Maybe I'll call a few of them if I see them.

EDIT: I got a hold of the NCAA rulebook and looked up that rule reference and came up with this:

Section 2. Ball Caused to Go Out of Bounds
Art. 1. The ball shall be caused to go out of bounds by the last player to
touch or to be touched by the ball before the ball goes out,provided that
the ball is out of bounds because of touching something other than a player
who is out of bounds
Art. 2. When the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched
by a player who is on or outside a boundary, such player shall have caused
the ball to go out of bounds.

Can someone interpret that for me, please? I find the wording of it all to be very difficult to understand. Thanks, gents.

[mbyron]

NFHS 7-2-2 is substantially the same as Article 2 of the college rule: if a player (somebody in the game, not a sub or somebody sitting on the bench) is out of bounds and touches the ball, that player caused the ball to be out of bounds.

I can't tell from your description whether B1 touched the ball or whether he's a player in the proper sense. If so, then B caused the ball to go OOB, and it would be A's ball for a throw-in.

[so cal lurker]

Art 1 is the normal case -- last person to touch before it goes OOB means the other team gets the throw.

It's art 2 that applies to your scenario, and really just says if you are OOB when touching or touched by the ball, the other team gets the throw:

When the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched
by a player who is on or outside a boundary [this is B1 in your scnario], such player [B1] shall have caused the ball to go out of bounds [meaning the other team, A, gets the throw in.

Originally Posted by random

Well, that's the thing, I'm not an official, just a player who plays pickup ball with a guy who carries a rulebook with these and seems like he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to rules, but I respect the game and everything you guys do, so I trust your words over his.

I'm reading old posts and it just boggles my mind how much rules there are in the game. Some could be pretty useful. Maybe I'll call a few of them if I see them.

EDIT: I got a hold of the NCAA rulebook and looked up that rule reference and came up with this:

Section 2. Ball Caused to Go Out of Bounds
Art. 1. The ball shall be caused to go out of bounds by the last player to
touch or to be touched by the ball before the ball goes out,provided that
the ball is out of bounds because of touching something other than a player
who is out of bounds
Art. 2. When the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched
by a player who is on or outside a boundary, such player shall have caused
the ball to go out of bounds.

Can someone interpret that for me, please? I find the wording of it all to be very difficult to understand. Thanks, gents.

[BillyMac]

Many, many years ago, during a throwin, if throwin player A1 released the ball on a throwin pass that subsequently touched B1, who was out of bounds, then A1 was charged with causing the ball to go out of bounds, and the ball was awarded to B1. If I recall properly, this was a throwin violation, and B1 got the ball at the original spot of the throwin. Of course this was so long ago that I'm a little "foggy" regarding the details. I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be along shortly to confirm, or deny, this for us. Of course, it's getting a little cold up in his attic so I'm not sure that's he's up to climbing up the stairs to get his old rule books to check out my interpretation.

[chseagle]

SECTION 2 CAUSING THE BALL TO GO OUT OF BOUNDS – INDIVIDUAL PLAYER
ART. 1 . . . The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player.
ART. 2 . . . If the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched by a player who is on or outside a boundary line, such player causes it to go out.

Case plays to back up ruling from 2009-2010 Case Book:
OUT-OF-BOUNDS SITUATIONS
7.1.2 SITUATION B: A1, while dribbling, touches: (a) B1 who is standing on a sideline; or (b) a nearby chair or scorer’s table while A1’s feet are inbounds.
RULING: (a) A1 is inbounds. However, if the ball in control of A1 touches B1, the ball is out of bounds & is awarded to Team A at that spot. In (b), A1 is out of bounds &, therefore, the ball is considered to have gone out of bounds. (7-2)

7.1.2 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in Team A’s backcourt when the ball is deflected by B1. The ball gets away & contacts a child who is (a) walking inbounds (on the playing court); or (b) walking out of bounds. The official sounds the whistle.
RULING: In (a), the ball is not out of bounds since the person contacted, the child, was inbounds. However, for safety reasons the official should stop play & resume from the point of interruption. Team A, the team last in control, will be awarded a throw-in at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when play was interrupted. B1 has committed an out-of-bounds violation in (b). (4-36; 7-2-1)

7.2.1 SITUATION: A1 holds the ball near a sideline. B1 is inbounds & bats the ball from the hands of A1 causing it to go out of bounds. RULING: The ball is awarded to Team A as B1 caused it to go out of bounds.

7.2.2 SITUATION: A throw-in by A1 (a) strikes B1 who is inbounds &
rebounds in flight directly from B1 & then strikes A1 who is still out of bounds; (b) is batted by B1, who is inbounds & the ball is next touched by A1 who is still out of bounds.
RULING: A1 caused the ball to go out of bounds & it is awarded to Team B at that spot for a throw-in for both (a) & (b).

Originally Posted by random

A1 saves a ball heading out of bounds and hit B1 who was standing out of bounds. I was told that it would be B1's team ball because B1, already established out of bounds, is considered out of play as if he were a pole or a bench. I continued, if that's the case, couldn't B1 contest and prevent A1 from saving the ball, and the guy said B1 cannot interfere with A1 saving the ball because B1 is "out of play" and such an offense is "a flagrant". Could someone clarify this? Thank you, gents.

[random]

Thanks a lot, gentlemen, for the rule clarification.

Chseagle, you have no idea how much your post will change defuse how many arguments on controversial calls. Thank you so much for posting the situations.

So there isn't a rule that allows B1 to be an extension of OOB by stepping OOB?


And an other rhing, just to make sure I got this right. It kind of falls into this:

7.2.1 SITUATION: A1 holds the ball near a sideline. B1 is inbounds & bats the ball from the hands of A1 causing it to go out of bounds.
RULING: The ball is awarded to Team A as B1 caused it to go out of bounds.

So if A1 is hold the ball with one hand and B1 comes in and slaps the ball towards OOB, but it was argued that A1's fingertips were the last part of A1 to touch the ball, it would be Team A's ball because B1 caused the ball to go out, right?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by random

So if A1 is hold the ball with one hand and B1 comes in and slaps the ball towards OOB, but it was argued that A1's fingertips were the last part of A1 to touch the ball,

No official is going to see it that way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by random

Well, that's the thing, I'm not an official, just a player who plays pickup ball with a guy who carries a rulebook with these and seems like he's pretty knowledgeable when it comes to rules, but I respect the game and everything you guys do, so I trust your words over his.

I'm reading old posts and it just boggles my mind how much rules there are in the game. Some could be pretty useful. Maybe I'll call a few of them if I see them.

EDIT: I got a hold of the NCAA rulebook and looked up that rule reference and came up with this:

Section 2. Ball Caused to Go Out of Bounds
Art. 1. The ball shall be caused to go out of bounds by the last player to
touch or to be touched by the ball before the ball goes out,provided that
the ball is out of bounds because of touching something other than a player
who is out of bounds
Art. 2. When the ball is out of bounds because of touching or being touched
by a player who is on or outside a boundary, such player shall have caused
the ball to go out of bounds.

Can someone interpret that for me, please? I find the wording of it all to be very difficult to understand. Thanks, gents.

bottom line: "causing the ball to go out of bounds" is the violation.

[hoopguy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No official is going to see it that way.

I completely agree with this statement and this made me think about how aggravated I got watching last year's NBA finals. In the NBA finals there were a few oob calls that were overturned by a replay where I thought the official made the correct call and I thought overturning the call was bull. I do not know NBA rules but it seems like once again NBA rules make it more diffult for us non-NBA refs.

Of course the announcers were 100% in agreement with overturning the refs calls.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hoopguy

I completely agree with this statement and this made me think about how aggravated I got watching last year's NBA finals. In the NBA finals there were a few oob calls that were overturned by a replay where I thought the official made the correct call and I thought overturning the call was bull. I do not know NBA rules but it seems like once again NBA rules make it more diffult for us non-NBA refs.

Of course the announcers were 100% in agreement with overturning the refs calls.

I know which plays you were talking about. Specifically there was an out of bounds play where Kobe hit the ball out of Garnett's hands and replay showed it went off Garnett's fingertips (game 3 I believe). I am in 100% agreement with the announcers about overturning the calls. If you're going to have a rule and technology to help you out, then you have to have the correct call.

I also don't know how this would make things any more or less difficult for us. It's not like the out of bounds rule here is different. A close out of bounds call is probably going to be contested by the team would thinks they should be getting the ball anyway. No one is expecting you to go to the monitor, so you can't use replay.