Whistle for a sub?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I sent our rules interpreter (we have one of those in addition to the instructional chair) an email and he agrees with me about the whistle. We will use it when necessary, but not all the time.

What does a RULES interpreter have to do with standardizing mechanics?

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What does a RULES interpreter have to do with standardizing mechanics?

In this case he has knowledge of what the NFHS really wants, he has many years as an official and the instructional chair respects his opinion.

Rich, common sense really has to be a part of what we do in our area because our goal is to improve the product - get in position and call plays correctly. I will be the first to say I care more about communication than things like blowing a whistle on a sub, using two hands to report or using the stop clock mechanic before giving a direction. My question is, does official X communicate well? If the answer is yes, then let's focus more on getting more plays right. I have sat in meetings in three different regions of the country - 5 high school associations. The thing they have in common is that they all have referees who talk a good game, but cannot officiate their way out of a paper bag! My experience tells me that most of those officials want to spend 95% of the time on small details that don't matter and 5% of the time talking about things that will help them call a better game. Plus, we get caught in a culture where we don't have enough engaged officials versus officials who do more harm than good. Will we (Southern Nevada) make huge improvements this season? I don't know, but we are going to try.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

In this case he has knowledge of what the NFHS really wants, he has many years as an official and the instructional chair respects his opinion.

Rich, common sense really has to be a part of what we do in our area because our goal is to improve the product - get in position and call plays correctly. I will be the first to say I care more about communication than things like blowing a whistle on a sub, using two hands to report or using the stop clock mechanic before giving a direction. My question is, does official X communicate well? If the answer is yes, then let's focus more on getting more plays right. I have sat in meetings in three different regions of the country - 5 high school associations. The thing they have in common is that they all have referees who talk a good game, but cannot officiate their way out of a paper bag! My experience tells me that most of those officials want to spend 95% of the time on small details that don't matter and 5% of the time talking about things that will help them call a better game. Plus, we get caught in a culture where we don't have enough engaged officials versus officials who do more harm than good. Will we (Southern Nevada) make huge improvements this season? I don't know, but we are going to try.

I don't disagree with you. I am a firm believer that play-calling is 90% of the deal for officials and I spend most of my time worrying about getting the right position and the right look and the right philosophy to make proper decisions on the court.

That said, why can't officials focus on that *and* get the mechanics right, too?

Last summer I went to a camp where I was told up front that "this is a HS camp, we will use HS mechanics." I hadn't raised my hand 5 times in 3 years before pointing a direction and still got some darned good assignments. I took it as a challenge (and I didn't want to be noticed for something so silly) and didn't miss a single "stop clock" the entire weekend and was *still* noticed (in a positive way) for my play calling.

So while I'm not against what you say, I'll ask again -- why can't officials do both?

[tref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

So while I'm not against what you say, I'll ask again -- why can't officials do both?

If officials that work NCAA & D-League games are disciplined enough to use proper mechanics from game to game, so should we.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by tref

If officials that work NCAA & D-League games are disciplined enough to use proper mechanics from game to game, so should we.

My smart@$$ comment for the day: "ok, pay me what thoase leagues pay me and I will!" Ok, I'm done, thanks for the opportunity!

[tref]

Originally Posted by CLH

My smart@$$ comment for the day: "ok, pay me what thoase leagues pay me and I will!" Ok, I'm done, thanks for the opportunity!

All about the Benjamins, huh?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CLH

My smart@$$ comment for the day: "ok, pay me what thoase leagues pay me and I will!" Ok, I'm done, thanks for the opportunity!

So only NCAA and D-League officials should be able make adjustments? One of the things that gets a high school official to the NCAA and D-League level is the ability to adjust as needed.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So only NCAA and D-League officials should be able make adjustments? One of the things that gets a high school official to the NCAA and D-League level is the ability to adjust as needed.

Yes, that's exactly what I said, those are the only officials who should ever make adjustments, without question, no if's, and's, or but's about it. That's clearly what I meant. (yes that was meant sarcastically) Geeze, lighten up killer!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I don't disagree with you. I am a firm believer that play-calling is 90% of the deal for officials and I spend most of my time worrying about getting the right position and the right look and the right philosophy to make proper decisions on the court.

That said, why can't officials focus on that *and* get the mechanics right, too?

Last summer I went to a camp where I was told up front that "this is a HS camp, we will use HS mechanics." I hadn't raised my hand 5 times in 3 years before pointing a direction and still got some darned good assignments. I took it as a challenge (and I didn't want to be noticed for something so silly) and didn't miss a single "stop clock" the entire weekend and was *still* noticed (in a positive way) for my play calling.

So while I'm not against what you say, I'll ask again -- why can't officials do both?

In a perfect world they can, but either I have the worst luck or high school officials can't do both (half serious, half kidding). Let me ask you this, would you ding an official who looks good, but doesn't use mechanics by the book versus an official who uses sloppy mechanics by the book?

I failed to mention, Las Vegas has always been a liberal area when it comes to mechanics. I started years ago in phoenix and we had to do everything precisely by the book. That actually helped me when I got to Vegas - I had fundamentally sound mechanics to start with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Let me ask you this, would you ding an official who looks good, but doesn't use mechanics by the book versus an official who uses sloppy mechanics by the book?

I'd ding both of 'em. There's no excuse for either imo. If you want uniformity in your area, it's up to YOU to set the parameters of what that uniformity should be and then apply those parameters. If you're not doing so, why evaluate people in the first place?

I could care less what parameters you set up locally, Tom. As long as everybody in your area is trying to do the same thing, great. But, as Nevada said, you may have a problem when your officials go outside your area. However, imo that ain't really a biggie either. A good pre-game takes care of most of those problems.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I'd ding both of 'em. There's no excuse for either imo. If you want uniformity in your area, it's up to YOU to set the parameters of what that uniformity should be and then apply those parameters. If you're not doing so, why evaluate people in the first place?

I could care less what parameters you set up locally, Tom. As long as everybody in your area is trying to do the same thing, great. But, as Nevada said, you may have a problem when your officials go outside your area. However, imo that ain't really a biggie either. A good pre-game takes care of most of those problems.

I can understand what you are saying and I will set the parameters. Unfortunately, I don't think Nevada will like those parameters.

I also agree that officials should be able to do both, but if you can tell me why they can't I'm all ears. Like most associations, we have officials who are at/near the tops in terms of ratings, new officials and those in the middle. The officials in the middle are the ones who make up most of the association and that is where we need to get better.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

1) Unfortunately, I don't think Nevada will like those parameters.

2) I also agree that officials should be able to do both, but if you can tell me why they can't I'm all ears. Like most associations, we have officials who are at/near the tops in terms of ratings, new officials and those in the middle. The officials in the middle are the ones who make up most of the association and that is where we need to get better.

1) Jmo but as long as your area is consistent in the mechanics, there ain't a damn thing wrong with it. Local evaluations will show you whether your officials are really doing what you want them to do. And the same holds true for Nevada's area. Iow, I don't think that either of you should dictate mechanic usage to the other. And I also don't think that it's gonna be any real problem come tournament time either. They have evaluators at regionals, state, etc. that will let you know what they want used. And any official picked for state playoffs should be able to easily adjust imo.

2) If I could tell you, some of my my own officials would be a helluva lot better than they are now. In my experience, it's a matter of an official wanting to get better. Some will listen to you; some will nod their heads up and down and say "uh-huh, Tom" and immediately go back to doing what they want to do as soon as you're out of sight. Imo you're sureashell on the right track though, trying to teach and train what you think needs to be done to upgrade your people.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

So while I'm not against what you say, I'll ask again -- why can't officials do both?

Any official who has some experience and an IQ higher than a grape should be able to learn and use the prescribed mechanics for the level they're working imo. And it ain't that difficult to find out the prescribed mechanics in your area also. You ask.

JMO.