Whistle for a sub?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I usually yell "SUB".

Isn't that what Ensign Charles Parker used to yell to Lieutenant Commander Quinton McHale?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm talking about a coach sending A1, then the other coach B1, then A2, then B2 OR A1, A2, A3....

Originally Posted by grunewar

This is a game management issue. I like to tell the coaches during our meet and greet, "Have your players ready at the table. I don't want an ongoing parade." I don't have a set rule, but put a stop to it fast.

From the IAABO Manual (Page 85): Substitution Procedures And Guidelines: 4. Substitution requests shall not be honored when the ball is about to become live.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Isn't that what Ensign Charles Parker used to yell to Lieutenant Commander Quinton McHale?

A person who can throw in a McHale's navy reference in a basketball officiating discussion board is OK by me!!!

[grunewar]

2.4.6 Substitutions:

A. To be acknowledged for entry, the substitute must be properly reported to
the scorer and ready for entry, at which time the timer’s horn is sounded.

(the last part is for the Eagle of course).

So, by the players constantly coming off the bench, it could be said they have not properly reported and therefore are not ready.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Judtech

You are setting yourself up for failure by that stinkin thinkin. If you already think you are going to kick a call then you already have!! The key to YOUR scenario is to not kick a call!
I HAVE used those lines, wasving the 5th sub and saying "Come on, join the party" is my favorite, but as stated, it depends on audience and situation. I agree there are those that can and those that CAN'T get away with it. I have a partner who is a great friend but if he tried something like that, all hell would break loose. Conversely, he can do things and get away with that I can't. That's why boards like this are good for all b/c different people have different personalities.

"Come on, join the party" is very different from what the questionable one liner is. The whole concept of one liners is silly. To have pre-determined wise responses is trouble. It is also too late to say "I wouldn't try it" because there have been too many people on this site who have asked for them in the past.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Page 41:
Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Unless there is something I missed of course.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From NFHS Instructions To Scorers: The scorer should not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul.

Does the word, "signal", refer to sounding the horn?

Originally Posted by chseagle

That is the only case I have noticed that mentions the sounding of the horn.

I am meaning all times though, not just specific times.

The text you quoted, should say: "The scorer shall not signal after the free thrower or thrower has been handed the ball or the ball is at the disposal of such player or team or until the official has completed reporting a foul." The only time the horn/signal should sound in this situation is in case of a question or error, as long as there is sufficent evidence to do so.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was trying to find a NFHS reference to a required procedure of sounding a horn to signal for substitutions. I didn't spend to much time looking, so I might have missed something, but I was surprised that the one and only reference I found was in the NFHS Instructions To Scorers. I could find no other reference in the rulebook or casebook. I was also surprised that it is a negative reference, that is, "should not signal". I would have thought that the NFHS would have a procedure as to when to properly signal for a substitution. I'm sure that I have overlooked something in my haste to quickly come up with an answer.

Did either of you bother to read 3-3-1d?

"If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is
entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a
sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the
clock is stopped."

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Page 41:
F. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Page 78:
G. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Originally Posted by tomegun

Quote:

I think this is a good way of doing it.

Quote:

...and they will be asking me.

Your brethren up North have agreed to teach to blow the whistle when bringing in subs just as stated in the NFHS manual. It would be appreciated if you would teach it that way in the South too, so that we are all on the same page when it comes time to work together at the State Tournament.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Shifting gears slightly, how many (if any) single subs (one after the other) will you allow to come to the table and into the game during a dead ball before you make them wait? I'm talking about a coach sending A1, then the other coach B1, then A2, then B2 OR A1, A2, A3....

I cut if off right there. A2 doesn't get in. Team A already made a substitution and Team B countered. We are certainly ready to play by now.
So A2 has to wait, unless there is an injury or some other oddity.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Did either of you bother to read 3-3-1d?"If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is
entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the
clock is stopped."

Nevadaref: Thanks. That's the reference that I was looking for.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

More tolerant than I used to be, although I'll whistle the subsequent subs in well before they reach the table to minimize the delay.

In that case, you might have the scorer yelling at you. I was taught as a scorer, not to allow players in the game until they are at the table in front of me & reported in the book.

[rlarry]

At which point I would get a new scorer as I was taught not to have the scorer yell at me

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by rlarry

At which point I would get a new scorer as I was taught not to have the scorer yell at me

However I rarely am scorer any more & have realized that at times the game gets fast paced, so to heck with that teaching.

I just make sure now that the player is recorded either as soon as at the table or while they're going onto the court.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Isn't that what Ensign Charles Parker used to yell to Lieutenant Commander Quinton McHale?

I thought that saying was from "Down Periscope"

I'm rather fond of the saying "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead", myself

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Your brethren up North have agreed to teach to blow the whistle when bringing in subs just as stated in the NFHS manual. It would be appreciated if you would teach it that way in the South too, so that we are all on the same page when it comes time to work together at the State Tournament.

Any conflict, then someone at the state level should be making the decision as to what procedure to use. It should be uniform, but if the state decides to not follow the manual, then that's the way it is.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

As a general rule, I would agree wiseazz responses, and perhaps profanity, should definitely be avoided. However, a lot depends on the specific official, and the "audience". There are a few officials that can get away with those types of responses, in limited situations.

In my experience, the "audience" might change on you too though. You might think that you have a great rapport with a coach and you can get away with some comments, but you might also catch him at the wrong time. If so, your great rapport is gonna go right down the dumper.

Imo, you should limit your wiseazz comments to coaches to pre and post game situations.

Of course, I also gotta admit that I've failed to follow my own advice in the past also.