Whistle for a sub?

[CLH]

NCAA-W instructed us a few years back to whistle EVERY time you bring in subs. I think its a good idea because it lets your partners know that you have something going on. We all know there are times we or our partners get in a hurry and rush a throwin. A quick whistle gets everyones attention and can save you some embarassment.

As for two hand mechanics...The last time I used 1 hand was at the State Tournament, other than that, you'll always see me with two. For me, it has nothing to do with disrespecting the game, it has to do with me working other types of games which require it. I don't want to change my normal rhythms and habits on the court. It's hard enough with rule differences, two hand reporting just seems very trivial to me.

Just my $.02 worth!

[Rufus]

Using the whistle for subs will depend on whether or not it's necessary (like in transition, for instance). Most of the times on crews I've worked with either T or C will hold their hand up and beckon the sub(s) in. We pre-game to make eye contact before we inbound the ball so we don't get caught unaware during these situations.

We use two-hand reporting for fouls and that was a switch for me when I started back officiating a couple of years ago. When first getting started officiating it was drilled into my head to (1) always use one hand and (2) to make sure it's off to the side and not in front of your face. It's stupid but going to two hands to report numbers required more than a little practice and the first year doing it I sometimes resorted to getting the numbers "ready" when walking to report the foul.

[tomegun]

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

As far as two-hand mechanics, I need patience. I was asked about it last year and was told "We are not college officials" by an official. I need patience in this situation because this particular officials, like many others, should be more concerned with making the right call before getting to the table. In my particular association I think we have bigger fish to fry. Again, I'm all ears.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

When watching JV games, it seems awkward watching the guys wait for the horn and then do the little wave to bring the player in.

I have always and will always report with one hand until told otherwise. However, I don't care if others use two hands.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'll mention it, then. In my meeting with the table, I instruct the timer to only give a horn for subs when we don't recognize them. It may happen once or twice a game where we're too slow for the timer or the timer's too quick for us. Frankly, my timing is better than theirs 99% of the time.

Exactly. Don't blame the damn horn unless he's sitting on the X and I'm in la-la land.

[CLH]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

Another reason I don't care for the whistle is communication. I'm going to vocalize a lot of things during a game that I don't hear from other officials. For instance, I have seen a ball bouncing away before inbounding and an official blows a whistle to "tell" a player to get the ball for him. Really? Why can't we talk? I have of the horn, "Blue sub" preference, but I'm listening.

I'd love to work these game you guys get where the table does everything exactly as instructed and never misses a beat! Sounds just grand!

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by CLH

I'm not really sure what your second point has to do with a whistle for subs, but I'll go with it!

My second point has to do with using the whistle in a robotic manner instead of communicating...wait for it...with our mouths.

Our table crews are not perfect, but we aren't either. However, they do go through training and attend meetings like we do. They are taught to hit the horn so it isn't a big deal for them to do it consistently. I failed to mention, there are instances where a whistle is necessary like after the last free throw when a team may try to get the ball in quick.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? I know Rut says he tells them not to give him a horn, but other people haven't really been mentioning it. If the horn is going off, isn't this enough to get your partners attention?

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

The horn going off is to get your attention, the whistle while waving subs on lets everyone know that a sub is coming into the game - there can be no error. Please, let's not assume that everyone running the clock, scoring, or officiating is always on the same page. We've all worked with people that don't pay enough attention at times. The whistle helps to eliminate confusion, and IMHO, also helps get the substitues attention so that they know they can enter the court. It also has helped in my area so that the minute the horns sounds they are not running onto the court - they must wait for the official to beckon them onto court - whith the whistle - they know which official to look at.

I take your response as the most "matter of factly" so far. That being the case, why isn't it in the manual then? You know what I do? The horn sounds and in a voice so I can be heard I say...wait for it..."Subs!" If I'm in a situation where I cannot be heard I may use my whistle. This response causes me to ask the question: since we are always talking about making eye contact with our partners, where is the eye contact in this situation? My original question and the tables in Vegas blowing the horn are not absolutes and I don't expect eye contact with a partner to be either, but where is the eye contact we talk about in meetings, on this site and in pre-games?

If I'm coming off as argumentative right now I don't mean to. I have no problem talking things out and right now I'm seeing the reason people do this as a direct contradiction with what they always preach.

[Nevadaref]

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

I disagree. I think people read too much into it when officials report with two hands. Yes, reporting with two hands is not correct as far as the NFHS manual is concerned and should be commented on as such. But to go as far as saying reporting that way is big timing the game? That's a bit much IMO.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I always sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

No whistle in the IAABO Manual.

Note to veteran NFHS mechanics users: Has the whistle for substitutes always been part of the NFHS Manual? Many years ago we used to use the NFHS mechanics, and I don't remember sounding the whistle to bring in substitutes.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As a member of the Board for the association up North, I'll contribute my feelings.

1. NEVER use two-hand reporting in a HS game. The NFHS manual specifies "with a one-handed signal." So follow the HS mechanics or don't work that level of ball. It comes off as big-timing to use two hands for reporting numbers.

2. I ALWAYS sound the whistle when bringing in subs. Why? Because the NFHS Officials Manual says to do so. It's on pages 41 (F2) and 78 (G2), for 2-man and 3-man mechanics. There is no doubt how the NFHS wants this done.

Note:
The table crew in my area is not part of the officials association and so does not have meetings or instruction other than from us just prior to the games. We get whomever the school provides. That is a difference between here and Vegas.

Page 41:
F. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Page 78:
G. The official beckoning the substitutes should:
1. Ensure that it is appropriate to beckon substitutes (i.e., the ball is not
live, fellow official needs to report a foul).
2. Sound his/her whistle, raise an open hand.
3. Motion for the substitutes to enter the court.
4. Keep the other hand raised (stop-clock signal) until the substitution(s)
is completed and play may begin.

Everything I am reading/understanding of the horn sounding is a courtesy, not required, for notifying of subs at the table.

Unless there is something I missed of course.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who are saying they use their whistle to get your partner's attention, is your table crew not doing their job? ...

Come on Tom, we all know at the HS level that table crew compentency varies GREATLY.

It's pretty simple for me:

• Table hits horns, I use raised hand but no whistle from me
• Table doesn't hit horn and I have eye contact with my partner I use voice and raised hand
• Table doesn't hit horn and I DON'T have eye contact with my partner then I use whistle and raised hand

I really don't see what's the big deal though.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I really don't see what's the big deal though.

It ain't a big deal. You do what your local association tells you to do. That includes one hand vs. two hand reporting also. And if you're not sure, you ask.