The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules

[chseagle]

I saw this on the post concerning LGP.

"Officials are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. Officials are not concerned with who wins or loses, but only fairness and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore cannot look at the game objectively. Players commit fouls and violations; officials view those infractions, judge the action, and then apply the rules of the game to what they had viewed. The rules then determine the penalty."

Does this quote only apply to floor officials?

According to all I've read, technically the table crew is supposed to be unbiased as well & are only supposed to be there to assist the floor officials with timing, scoring, & other duties as described in rules/regulations set forth by all governing bodies.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Does this quote only apply to floor officials?

I'd like to say no, but when the tires hit the road, I know that the home scorekeeper, and the home timer, would be pleased if the home team wins at the end of the night. Likewise, the visiting scorekeeper, I'm sure, would be pleased if the visiting team won. I am not, in any way, implying that the crew at the table would do anything unsporting, unfair, or unethical. I'm sure that they try as hard as they can to be unbiased, but there are only two, or three, people in that gym, that night, who really don't care who wins that game. They're the ones wearing the striped shirts. Even the cop standing in the corner has a favorite team in that gym that night.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'd like to say no, but when the tires hit the road, I know that the home scorekeeper, and the home timer, would be pleased if the home team wins at the end of the night. Likewise, the visiting scorekeeper, I'm sure, would be pleased if the visiting team won. I am not, in any way implying that the crew at the table would do anything unsporting, unfair, or unethical. I'm sure that they try as hard as they can to be unbiased, but there are only two, or three, people in that gym, that night, who really don't care who wins that game. They're the ones wearing the striped shirts. Even the cop standing in the corner has a favorite team in that gym that night.

Concerning what I've highlighted, I've seen it happen (& taken action to cease those activities), as they want to support their team.

I can sympathize with them, however as I have been told before the table crew is supposed to be impartial & are part of the officiating crew. As such, any emotions/outbursts shown by those at the table need to be subdued until away from the table.

Of course I realize there are others that don't agree with my thoughts or my way of dealing with things. However, as of yet I have not been asked to cease how I do things nor asked to be replaced.

[Mark Padgett]

As I tell coaches - "There's only two people in the gym who don't care who wins - my and my partner. We only care about one thing, that at the end of regulation time, one team has at least one point more than the other."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Does this quote only apply to floor officials?

'Floor officials'. Still makes me chuckle!

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mbyron

'Floor officials'. Still makes me chuckle!

I certainly understand your point, especially in this case.

We do have a few schools where our Association provides the clock op - in uniform. Of course, I still refer to them as the "clock op," but others (ahem) may refer to them as a "non-floor official."

They are certainly part of "the team" AND unbiased.

[gsf23]

Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.

I used this term when being evaluated previosuly and the reply from my evaulator was not good.

You either saw it or you didn't. "Yes" or "No."

"I think so," is not helpful or a good answer.

That's the way I've been taught anyhow.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.

If I feel that if the personnel at the table a capable of assisting, then I will ask for help. Ex: Last year the assigned table crew did not show up for the JV/Varsity game. Thus 2 students worked the clock and scorebook. These 2 kids were more responsible then the regular crew. There was a time out with around 4 seconds remaining. The gym is noisy, the horn is away from the basket and it is soft. So during the TO I discuss the situation with the table officials about a last second shot. There happened to be a foul. While I reported the foul, I discussed if the whistle sounded before the time expired. Both agreed. Even the Head Coach of the fouling team agreed. If this happened with the regular crew, I wouldn't have been sure if they would have started the clock correctly.
So yes I have asked for assistance, but you have to know the people at the table.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have?

Yeah. "Where's the men's room?"

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by gsf23

Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.

gsf23, one of things I do when I am timer/scoreboard, or when I was scorebook, is that I continually watch the ball, especially during the last minute of the quarter/game. Thankfully as of yet I have not been asked for assistance of this sort, meaning I've had great floor officials that are really on the ball.

Originally Posted by Zoochy

If I feel that if the personnel at the table a capable of assisting, then I will ask for help. Ex: Last year the assigned table crew did not show up for the JV/Varsity game. Thus 2 students worked the clock and scorebook. These 2 kids were more responsible then the regular crew. There was a time out with around 4 seconds remaining. The gym is noisy, the horn is away from the basket and it is soft. So during the TO I discuss the situation with the table officials about a last second shot. There happened to be a foul. While I reported the foul, I discussed if the whistle sounded before the time expired. Both agreed. Even the Head Coach of the fouling team agreed. If this happened with the regular crew, I wouldn't have been sure if they would have started the clock correctly.
So yes I have asked for assistance, but you have to know the people at the table.

Zoochy, were those 2 students basketball players?

Your last statement can go both ways, as it can help the table crew if they know the floor officials. There are a few here that I've built up a comraderie with & we know what is expected of each other as soon as we see the other.

Concerning table crews, how many of them have with them a copy of the rules/regulations concerning the duties of the timer &/or scorer?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning table crews, how many of them have with them a copy of the rules/regulations concerning the duties of the timer &/or scorer?

Just the ones with Alzenheimers that can't remember simple instructions, the ones that can't comprehend simple instructions, and the ones that have the attention span of a gnat.

And you, of course.

It ain't freaking rocket science.

[Kingsman1288]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just the ones with Alzenheimers that can't remember simple instructions, the ones that can't comprehend simple instructions, and the ones that have the attention span of a gnat.

And you, of course.

It ain't freaking rocket science.

[RefItUp]

I have read somewhere, like a side-one from the NHFS rules or something like that they are indeed Officials of games. And yes, they are suppose to be unbiased...good luck though.

But in my high school, when I didn't have games to officiate myself, or before I was legally allowed to officiate, I worked the table and I was very professional in how I worked. Made sure I had the horn, informed the refs of getting close to bonus, remaining timeouts, etc.

But that's just me.

Overall though, they are indeed to be considered Game Officials or some other terminology similar to that.

-Luke

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RefItUp

I have read somewhere, like a side-one from the NHFS rules or something like that they are indeed Officials of games. And yes, they are suppose to be unbiased...good luck though.

But in my high school, when I didn't have games to officiate myself, or before I was legally allowed to officiate, I worked the table and I was very professional in how I worked. Made sure I had the horn, informed the refs of getting close to bonus, remaining timeouts, etc.

But that's just me.

Overall though, they are indeed to be considered Game Officials or some other terminology similar to that.

-Luke

I was told something similar, back 9-10 years ago when I was doing timer at a Summer League/AAU game.

Unfortunately, majority where I'm a "table official", I'm the only person there who is neutral/unbiased, as I mostly work JV/C-squad games so the other personnel I work with are either students or parents of the schools participating.

Actually the few Varsity games I've worked, there were some times where a person would be biased/favored of a team but after a few reminders, they ceased their activities till after the game. Overall though, for me, it's easier to work Varsity than JV/C-Squad cause of the personnel.