The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 16, 2010, 07:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules

I saw this on the post concerning LGP.

"Officials are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. Officials are not concerned with who wins or loses, but only fairness and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore cannot look at the game objectively. Players commit fouls and violations; officials view those infractions, judge the action, and then apply the rules of the game to what they had viewed. The rules then determine the penalty."

Does this quote only apply to floor officials?

According to all I've read, technically the table crew is supposed to be unbiased as well & are only supposed to be there to assist the floor officials with timing, scoring, & other duties as described in rules/regulations set forth by all governing bodies.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson

Last edited by chseagle; Thu Sep 16, 2010 at 07:48pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 16, 2010, 08:27pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,668
Fair And Balanced ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Does this quote only apply to floor officials?
I'd like to say no, but when the tires hit the road, I know that the home scorekeeper, and the home timer, would be pleased if the home team wins at the end of the night. Likewise, the visiting scorekeeper, I'm sure, would be pleased if the visiting team won. I am not, in any way, implying that the crew at the table would do anything unsporting, unfair, or unethical. I'm sure that they try as hard as they can to be unbiased, but there are only two, or three, people in that gym, that night, who really don't care who wins that game. They're the ones wearing the striped shirts. Even the cop standing in the corner has a favorite team in that gym that night.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 16, 2010 at 08:35pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 16, 2010, 08:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'd like to say no, but when the tires hit the road, I know that the home scorekeeper, and the home timer, would be pleased if the home team wins at the end of the night. Likewise, the visiting scorekeeper, I'm sure, would be pleased if the visiting team won. I am not, in any way implying that the crew at the table would do anything unsporting, unfair, or unethical. I'm sure that they try as hard as they can to be unbiased, but there are only two, or three, people in that gym, that night, who really don't care who wins that game. They're the ones wearing the striped shirts. Even the cop standing in the corner has a favorite team in that gym that night.
Concerning what I've highlighted, I've seen it happen (& taken action to cease those activities), as they want to support their team.

I can sympathize with them, however as I have been told before the table crew is supposed to be impartial & are part of the officiating crew. As such, any emotions/outbursts shown by those at the table need to be subdued until away from the table.

Of course I realize there are others that don't agree with my thoughts or my way of dealing with things. However, as of yet I have not been asked to cease how I do things nor asked to be replaced.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 16, 2010, 09:25pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
As I tell coaches - "There's only two people in the gym who don't care who wins - my and my partner. We only care about one thing, that at the end of regulation time, one team has at least one point more than the other."
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 06:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post
Does this quote only apply to floor officials?
'Floor officials'. Still makes me chuckle!
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 06:47am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,643
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Agreed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
'Floor officials'. Still makes me chuckle!
I certainly understand your point, especially in this case.

We do have a few schools where our Association provides the clock op - in uniform. Of course, I still refer to them as the "clock op," but others (ahem) may refer to them as a "non-floor official."

They are certainly part of "the team" AND unbiased.
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 08:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 566
Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.
__________________
"Booze, broads, and bullsh!t. If you got all that, what else do you need?"."
- Harry Caray -

Last edited by gsf23; Fri Sep 17, 2010 at 08:26am.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 09:05am
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,643
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
Think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsf23 View Post
Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.
I used this term when being evaluated previosuly and the reply from my evaulator was not good.

You either saw it or you didn't. "Yes" or "No."

"I think so," is not helpful or a good answer.

That's the way I've been taught anyhow.
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 10:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 734
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsf23 View Post
Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.
If I feel that if the personnel at the table a capable of assisting, then I will ask for help. Ex: Last year the assigned table crew did not show up for the JV/Varsity game. Thus 2 students worked the clock and scorebook. These 2 kids were more responsible then the regular crew. There was a time out with around 4 seconds remaining. The gym is noisy, the horn is away from the basket and it is soft. So during the TO I discuss the situation with the table officials about a last second shot. There happened to be a foul. While I reported the foul, I discussed if the whistle sounded before the time expired. Both agreed. Even the Head Coach of the fouling team agreed. If this happened with the regular crew, I wouldn't have been sure if they would have started the clock correctly.
So yes I have asked for assistance, but you have to know the people at the table.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 11:13am
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsf23 View Post
Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have?
Yeah. "Where's the men's room?"
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 04:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsf23 View Post
Have any of you ever gone to the table to ask for help on something other than stuff like how many fouls does this one have? I have been running the clock at games for about 8 years now and I have had a crew come to our table asking for help probably once. That was for an end of half shot, and they came to the table asking if we thought they had gotten the shot off in time.
gsf23, one of things I do when I am timer/scoreboard, or when I was scorebook, is that I continually watch the ball, especially during the last minute of the quarter/game. Thankfully as of yet I have not been asked for assistance of this sort, meaning I've had great floor officials that are really on the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
If I feel that if the personnel at the table a capable of assisting, then I will ask for help. Ex: Last year the assigned table crew did not show up for the JV/Varsity game. Thus 2 students worked the clock and scorebook. These 2 kids were more responsible then the regular crew. There was a time out with around 4 seconds remaining. The gym is noisy, the horn is away from the basket and it is soft. So during the TO I discuss the situation with the table officials about a last second shot. There happened to be a foul. While I reported the foul, I discussed if the whistle sounded before the time expired. Both agreed. Even the Head Coach of the fouling team agreed. If this happened with the regular crew, I wouldn't have been sure if they would have started the clock correctly.
So yes I have asked for assistance, but you have to know the people at the table.
Zoochy, were those 2 students basketball players?

Your last statement can go both ways, as it can help the table crew if they know the floor officials. There are a few here that I've built up a comraderie with & we know what is expected of each other as soon as we see the other.

Concerning table crews, how many of them have with them a copy of the rules/regulations concerning the duties of the timer &/or scorer?
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 05:10pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by chseagle View Post

Concerning table crews, how many of them have with them a copy of the rules/regulations concerning the duties of the timer &/or scorer?
Just the ones with Alzenheimers that can't remember simple instructions, the ones that can't comprehend simple instructions, and the ones that have the attention span of a gnat.

And you, of course.

It ain't freaking rocket science.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 17, 2010, 07:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to Kingsman1288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Just the ones with Alzenheimers that can't remember simple instructions, the ones that can't comprehend simple instructions, and the ones that have the attention span of a gnat.

And you, of course.

It ain't freaking rocket science.

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 19, 2010, 06:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 10
I have read somewhere, like a side-one from the NHFS rules or something like that they are indeed Officials of games. And yes, they are suppose to be unbiased...good luck though.

But in my high school, when I didn't have games to officiate myself, or before I was legally allowed to officiate, I worked the table and I was very professional in how I worked. Made sure I had the horn, informed the refs of getting close to bonus, remaining timeouts, etc.

But that's just me.

Overall though, they are indeed to be considered Game Officials or some other terminology similar to that.

-Luke
__________________
2nd Year Official
MonValley Basketball Officials Association/Ohio Valley Basketball Officials Association
West Virginia Secondary Schools Activities Commission
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 19, 2010, 06:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Somewhere on the earth
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefItUp View Post
I have read somewhere, like a side-one from the NHFS rules or something like that they are indeed Officials of games. And yes, they are suppose to be unbiased...good luck though.

But in my high school, when I didn't have games to officiate myself, or before I was legally allowed to officiate, I worked the table and I was very professional in how I worked. Made sure I had the horn, informed the refs of getting close to bonus, remaining timeouts, etc.

But that's just me.

Overall though, they are indeed to be considered Game Officials or some other terminology similar to that.

-Luke
I was told something similar, back 9-10 years ago when I was doing timer at a Summer League/AAU game.

Unfortunately, majority where I'm a "table official", I'm the only person there who is neutral/unbiased, as I mostly work JV/C-squad games so the other personnel I work with are either students or parents of the schools participating.

Actually the few Varsity games I've worked, there were some times where a person would be biased/favored of a team but after a few reminders, they ceased their activities till after the game. Overall though, for me, it's easier to work Varsity than JV/C-Squad cause of the personnel.
__________________
"Ask not what your teammates can do for you. Ask what you can do for your teammates"--Earvin "Magic" Johnson
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules BillyMac Basketball 29 Tue Jun 25, 2013 04:58pm
Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules BillyMac Basketball 21 Sun May 11, 2008 03:45pm
Final Final Final List of Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules BillyMac Basketball 1 Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:23am
Misunderstood basketball rules Art N Basketball 17 Wed Nov 14, 2001 03:40pm
Most misunderstood rules JoeT Basketball 11 Wed Feb 16, 2000 12:41pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1