Ejection ...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Nowhere in the OP was it mentioned that the HC was belligerent, yelling, screaming, persistent, personal, profane, etc.

A coach who wants a T would not wait until 0:45 left in a 30-point blowout.

I don't see at how this HC wanted a T. He wanted a foul on Red. That's it. If I said anything, I would have said "Understood coach." Trust me, that would have satisfied him. Then nothing more comes of the situation.

I think that using the stop sign, you created more paperwork for yourself. If you think that a coach "owned" the last minute of a 30-point blowout because he finally spoke up and said that Red committed a foul first, then you need thicker skin.

+1

IMO, the only way the stop sign works is if the coaches are well versed in its use. What you did was use it on a Dad who's probably seen his son use it a few times; how well do you think he took it?

It's not a universal stop sign, it's a universal "whatever" sign that happens to be used in some areas as a warning in a basketball game. Guess which one Dad sees when you use it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Nowhere in the OP was it mentioned that the HC was belligerent, yelling, screaming, persistent, personal, profane, etc.

Telling an official that he and his partner had done a lousy job all night ISN'T personal?

That startement is derogatory and demeaning. Every official sets their own limits, but I personally will never let a coach get away with a comment like that.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Telling an official that he and his partner had done a lousy job all night ISN'T personal?

That startement is derogatory and demeaning. Every official sets their own limits, but I personally will never let a coach get away with a comment like that.

Neither would I.

But you've taken what I said out of context. To make myself clear: there was nothing in the initial coach's comment that required an aggressive handling technique by the official.

[MathReferee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I have a very long fuse when it comes to coaches. Maybe a couple of technical fouls each season, only one ejection that I can recall in twenty-nine years. I've been to the rodeo a few times, the coaches know me, and seem to respect me. Maybe my gray hair makes me seem wiser than my years.

Last night. Nutmeg Games. Our Connecticut "Olympic-style" summer sports festival. High school age game. First game was in the secondary gym, ended on time. Walked up to the primary gym for our second game to see that they were fifteen minutes behind schedule. My partner and I watched in horror as the game before ours went into two overtimes.

Finally start our 8:00 p.m. game at around 9:00 p.m. Nice game. The Red Team is a step faster, and an inch taller, than the White Team. The Red Team moves out to a comfortable lead early in the game. Neither coach is complaining about calls. The Red coach is standing and coaching in his coaching box the entire game. The White coach is just sitting on his bench sending subs in and out of the game. Kids are reacting well to our calls and noncalls. No problems with game management until there's only forty-five seconds left in the game.

Foul on White 11. I report it to the table. Table informs me that it is 11's fifth foul. I inform White coach that 11 has five fouls. White Coach informs me that he already knows and has a sub available at the table and adds that we should have called a foul on Red previous to 11's foul. I simply state "That's enough coach", while giving a non-threatening "stop sign". In twenty-nine years this technique has worked for me 99.5% of the time.

Not this time. He continues that my partner and I have been doing a lousy job all night. Keep in mind that up until this point he hasn't said a single word to me or my partner. He's down 30 points with 45 seconds to go in the game. I guess he didn't understand what "enough" meant, so I charge him with a technical foul, figuring that it will shut him up.

I figured wrong. He continues to complain about the officiating in general, and the technical foul specifically. Will not shut up. So I charge him with his second technical foul, at which point he sits down, unaware that the second technical is an automatic ejection. I ask him to leave the gym, which he does so begrudgingly. Now he can't coach his kids in the next game.

45 seconds left. 30 point game. 100% easy game up until that point. What got into this guy's head? On the way home, at 10:30 p.m., I'm thinking about my ejection report that I have to phone into my assistant assigner. At that point I realize that this coach never swore, at me, or my partner, and, in fact, never even called either of us a name.

Has anyone ever had a game get so bad, so quick? As anybody ever ejected a coach who simply kept complaining after being asked to stop.

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to spend the $24.00 that I took home from this game. I better not spend it all in one place. I've got three more games on Thursday night, and two games on Saturday night. Then, maybe, I'll have enough money to buy that Corvette?

This is something that I have definitely been working on over the summer. I had a similar situation where I issued a T and definitely felt justified at the time and afterward. However, I still reflected on it as: what could I have responded to the coach with differently that could have diffused the situation?

For your play, I think the T and ejection seem warranted based on his reactions, but they just occurred at an awkward time in the game. Not that that matters, but game situation plays a role in how we respond to the initial comment by a coach. Obviously he vented after your initial response, more that he should have and got what he deserved. But was your initial response the best response you could have given, given that situation? I think we all try to avoid giving both T's in an ejection, especially back to back, but we cannot avoid everything. I certainly would think that a more experienced partner would come in and get you out of the situation, and have you be done with it after the first T. Most importantly though, I think with any game situation, we need to constantly be reflective and think if we handled that situation the best we could have.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...Last night. Nutmeg Games. Our Connecticut "Olympic-style" summer sports festival. High school age game...

So chances are, he's probably not a HS or regular season coach who has a feel for where the line is or even understands that the stop sign is there for his benefit. That's what I run into with AAU or other non Fed summer coaches. Probably a player's father who agreed to coach the local HS team because the regular coach is on vacation.

Don't beat yourself up over it. You've probably analyzed the whole exchange more than he has. He's likely bragging to his buddies that he got tossed at the Nutmeg Games.

Think of it as a teaching experience for him. If his team is still around in two days, he'll know better next time.

p.s. I have an old Vette. The money I make from summer ball almost pays for the gas in it

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

So chances are, he's probably not a HS or regular season coach who has a feel for where the line is or even understands that the stop sign is there for his benefit. That's what I run into with AAU or other non Fed summer coaches. Probably a player's father who agreed to coach the local HS team because the regular coach is on vacation.

Bingo. We have a winner. In Connecticut, high school coaches aren't allowed to coach their players during the off-season.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I have a very long fuse when it comes to coaches. Maybe a couple of technical fouls each season, only one ejection that I can recall in twenty-nine years. I've been to the rodeo a few times, the coaches know me, and seem to respect me. Maybe my gray hair makes me seem wiser than my years.

Last night. Nutmeg Games. Our Connecticut "Olympic-style" summer sports festival. High school age game. First game was in the secondary gym, ended on time. Walked up to the primary gym for our second game to see that they were fifteen minutes behind schedule. My partner and I watched in horror as the game before ours went into two overtimes.

Finally start our 8:00 p.m. game at around 9:00 p.m. Nice game. The Red Team is a step faster, and an inch taller, than the White Team. The Red Team moves out to a comfortable lead early in the game. Neither coach is complaining about calls. The Red coach is standing and coaching in his coaching box the entire game. The White coach is just sitting on his bench sending subs in and out of the game. Kids are reacting well to our calls and noncalls. No problems with game management until there's only forty-five seconds left in the game.

Foul on White 11. I report it to the table. Table informs me that it is 11's fifth foul. I inform White coach that 11 has five fouls. White Coach informs me that he already knows and has a sub available at the table and adds that we should have called a foul on Red previous to 11's foul. I simply state "That's enough coach", while giving a non-threatening "stop sign". In twenty-nine years this technique has worked for me 99.5% of the time.

Not this time. He continues that my partner and I have been doing a lousy job all night. Keep in mind that up until this point he hasn't said a single word to me or my partner. He's down 30 points with 45 seconds to go in the game. I guess he didn't understand what "enough" meant, so I charge him with a technical foul, figuring that it will shut him up.

I figured wrong. He continues to complain about the officiating in general, and the technical foul specifically. Will not shut up. So I charge him with his second technical foul, at which point he sits down, unaware that the second technical is an automatic ejection. I ask him to leave the gym, which he does so begrudgingly. Now he can't coach his kids in the next game.

45 seconds left. 30 point game. 100% easy game up until that point. What got into this guy's head? On the way home, at 10:30 p.m., I'm thinking about my ejection report that I have to phone into my assistant assigner. At that point I realize that this coach never swore, at me, or my partner, and, in fact, never even called either of us a name.

Has anyone ever had a game get so bad, so quick? As anybody ever ejected a coach who simply kept complaining after being asked to stop.

Now I have to figure out how I'm going to spend the $24.00 that I took home from this game. I better not spend it all in one place. I've got three more games on Thursday night, and two games on Saturday night. Then, maybe, I'll have enough money to buy that Corvette?

Billy:

The only thing that I might suggest that you could have done differently is that with only 45 seconds left in a blowout is to just ingnore W-HC's first comment and get the ball back into play. I know I can't believe that I am giving this particular type of advice, but any response from you, while non-threatening and non-baiting, was like adding gasoline to a fire as far as W-HC was concerned.

MTD, Sr.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

White Coach informs me that he already knows and has a sub available at the table and adds that we should have called a foul on Red previous to 11's foul. I simply state "That's enough coach", while giving a non-threatening "stop sign". In twenty-nine years this technique has worked for me 99.5% of the time.

Not this time. He continues that my partner and I have been doing a lousy job all night.

The coach complained. The official gives a simple, non-confrontational warning about continuing the complaining. The coach then completely ignores that warning and continues to complain.

And then some people complain that you acted hastily. To them I say "whatinthehell do you people want Billy to do in a situation like that?" How many warnings should a coach get before we do something about it? How many warning do you think should be given before you'll actually do something about them? Why warn in the first place if you have no intention of following up with that warning?

Righteous "T", Billy. The coach left you no choice by ignoring your warning. All you did was react to what the coach did, and the coach really left you no choice imo. And it doesn't matter either if it's in the last 5 seconds of the game or the first 5 seconds of the game. You penalize the act! Period!

Some officials can always find a reason NOT to call a technical foul.