Scorer's Horn During Live-Ball

[CDurham]

Had this play last week in summer league.

A1 is starting his drive around the 3 point line and right before going up for a lay up in the post the scorer's horn is heard. A1 hearing the horn stops and throws the ball in the direction of the lead official who in turns lets the ball go out of bounds. The lead signals Team B ball going the other direction.
A1 makes the argument that he heard the horn and thought that stopped play
The lead argues that even though the horn was sounded it was during a live ball which therefore should be ignored if a scoring play is in action.

I didn't over rule the call because it wasn't detrimental to the game (Team A down 20 in the 4th quarter) and wasn't asked by my partner. However me and my partner did discuss the play after the game. My thoughts are yes it was during a live ball and during a scoring play, but I view the case of ignoring the signal only when the scoring play continues after the sounding of the horn. If a player hears the horn and throws the ball to the official it obviously caused a disadvantage towards A1.

In others words I think this play and the case play in the book 2.11.3 is stating that if the horn is heard during a scoring play it should be ignored if the scoring play continues. If it does not like in the play last week play shall resume from the point of interruption.

Would like to hear everyones thoughts! Thanks

[Mark Padgett]

This is one of those situations that happens sometimes but will only lose it's confusing aspects if all officials call it consistently. The correct call is to not make any "accommodations" for it happening, because if you do, the players will never learn to ignore the horn and continue playing.

If they get snippy, tell them to be mad at the guy at the table for doing it.

[mbyron]

The horn does not make the ball dead, as we know. Thus the calling official was correct in the OP: simple OOB call during a live ball.

That said, I would also be sensitive to the circumstances of the horn. If the home team is up by 1 with 15 seconds to play and the visitors are driving to the basket, it's a little fishy to have the horn go off and kill the possession.

[Camron Rust]

The correct ruling is B's ball OOB as the horn doesn't stop play.

The "right" call for this game is A's ball OOB.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by camron rust

the correct ruling is b's ball oob as the horn doesn't stop play.

The "right" call for this game is a's ball oob.

+1

[Adam]

The perfect time to make the correct call on this play is during summer ball. the player gets to learn the lesson during a meaningless game.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

CDurham,
What did the table tell you when asked about the horn going off? In most summer leagues the clock runs so there is no reason for the timer's fingers to be anywhere near the horn. They just sit back, relax, and record points and fouls until a timeout is called.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

CDurham,
What did the table tell you when asked about the horn going off? In most summer leagues the clock runs so there is no reason for the timer's fingers to be anywhere near the horn. They just sit back, relax, and record points and fouls until a timeout is called.

I didn't bother to ask. This guy has kept the clock before in regular season and does a great job and it is summer ball so no big deal. If it was regular season I would like an explanation of some sort.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The horn does not make the ball dead, as we know. Thus the calling official was correct in the OP: simple OOB call during a live ball.

That said, I would also be sensitive to the circumstances of the horn. If the home team is up by 1 with 15 seconds to play and the visitors are driving to the basket, it's a little fishy to have the horn go off and kill the possession.

Could you not use the advantage/disadvantage ruling here and give the ball to Team A with Point of Interruption just like if the scoring play was not in action and the horn went off??

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Kinda curious-
The fact that he's experienced makes me think that it was an inadvertent horn.With a rookie you would expect that kind of mistake!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Could you not use the advantage/disadvantage ruling here and give the ball to Team A with Point of Interruption just like if the scoring play was not in action and the horn went off??

No. You have to call it the way the rules indicate it should be called. We have to be consistent.

[CDurham]

I understand and would ignore it if the play continued, but if an error by the scorekeeper causes an disadvantage shouldn't we do POI? I have always heard the rulebook is black and white. Just like as officials we may give a spectator a technical foul that is charged to the team if they suspend or impede play, but it is highly unlikely that anyone would unless under extreme circumstances

[M&M Guy]

The only reason there was a disadvantage of some sort was because the player didn't know or understand the rule that the horn does not cause the play to stop. Giving it back to A causes B a disadvantage in not getting the result of a turnover.

Summer league game of junior-high players, perhaps I would give it back to A. Summer league game of high school or above, give it to B. A1 should know better by then.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Summer league game of junior-high players, perhaps I would give it back to A. Summer league game of high school or above, give it to B. A1 should know better by then.

Gotta disagree with not calling it correctly at any level. Our local kids rec league is over 30 years old and we've always had the policy of making the calls on "unusual" plays according to the rules then explaining it to the kids - even the 3rd graders. Our theory is that's the best way for them to learn.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Gotta disagree with not calling it correctly at any level. Our local kids rec league is over 30 years old and we've always had the policy of making the calls on "unusual" plays according to the rules then explaining it to the kids - even the 3rd graders. Our theory is that's the best way for them to learn.

Mark - for the most part I don't disagree; that's why I said "perhaps". Around here, summer league games are probably a little more relaxed than even your rec league games, so that's why I used that qualifier. In some cases, we're even lucky for all of the players on one team to have the same color jerseys, much less legal numbers, so the rules that are enforced are limited to actual game rules rather than than administrative. If the league specifies follow all the rules, then by all means, that's what we should do.