Scorer's Horn During Live-Ball

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The horn does not make the ball dead, as we know. Thus the calling official was correct in the OP: simple OOB call during a live ball.

That said, I would also be sensitive to the circumstances of the horn. If the home team is up by 1 with 15 seconds to play and the visitors are driving to the basket, it's a little fishy to have the horn go off and kill the possession.

Could you not use the advantage/disadvantage ruling here and give the ball to Team A with Point of Interruption just like if the scoring play was not in action and the horn went off??

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Kinda curious-
The fact that he's experienced makes me think that it was an inadvertent horn.With a rookie you would expect that kind of mistake!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Could you not use the advantage/disadvantage ruling here and give the ball to Team A with Point of Interruption just like if the scoring play was not in action and the horn went off??

No. You have to call it the way the rules indicate it should be called. We have to be consistent.

[CDurham]

I understand and would ignore it if the play continued, but if an error by the scorekeeper causes an disadvantage shouldn't we do POI? I have always heard the rulebook is black and white. Just like as officials we may give a spectator a technical foul that is charged to the team if they suspend or impede play, but it is highly unlikely that anyone would unless under extreme circumstances

[M&M Guy]

The only reason there was a disadvantage of some sort was because the player didn't know or understand the rule that the horn does not cause the play to stop. Giving it back to A causes B a disadvantage in not getting the result of a turnover.

Summer league game of junior-high players, perhaps I would give it back to A. Summer league game of high school or above, give it to B. A1 should know better by then.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Summer league game of junior-high players, perhaps I would give it back to A. Summer league game of high school or above, give it to B. A1 should know better by then.

Gotta disagree with not calling it correctly at any level. Our local kids rec league is over 30 years old and we've always had the policy of making the calls on "unusual" plays according to the rules then explaining it to the kids - even the 3rd graders. Our theory is that's the best way for them to learn.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Gotta disagree with not calling it correctly at any level. Our local kids rec league is over 30 years old and we've always had the policy of making the calls on "unusual" plays according to the rules then explaining it to the kids - even the 3rd graders. Our theory is that's the best way for them to learn.

Mark - for the most part I don't disagree; that's why I said "perhaps". Around here, summer league games are probably a little more relaxed than even your rec league games, so that's why I used that qualifier. In some cases, we're even lucky for all of the players on one team to have the same color jerseys, much less legal numbers, so the rules that are enforced are limited to actual game rules rather than than administrative. If the league specifies follow all the rules, then by all means, that's what we should do.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Gotta disagree with not calling it correctly at any level. Our local kids rec league is over 30 years old and we've always had the policy of making the calls on "unusual" plays according to the rules then explaining it to the kids - even the 3rd graders. Our theory is that's the best way for them to learn.

It's nice to know soeone else has this philosophy.

Thsi past winter, our CYO JV girls (grades 4-6) were hosting a school that is lucky enough to even have enough students to field a team at each level. They only had five players available and partway through the game, one of their players turns an ankle and for whatever reason, there isn't any athletic tape in the gym. Some wanted the game delayed until she could get taped up and continue and I commented that they should just play 4 on 5 until our AD could round up some tape. My partner on the clock disagreed -- she felt it was some how unfair to make a team play shorthanded in this circumstance.

My repsonse was that if our CYO JV league is truly an instructional league (as stated in our league rule handout), this is the perfect time to teach them what happens when a team has no substitues available for an injured/disqualified player.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

It's nice to know soeone else has this philosophy.

Thsi past winter, our CYO JV girls (grades 4-6) were hosting a school that is lucky enough to even have enough students to field a team at each level. They only had five players available and partway through the game, one of their players turns an ankle and for whatever reason, there isn't any athletic tape in the gym. Some wanted the game delayed until she could get taped up and continue and I commented that they should just play 4 on 5 until our AD could round up some tape. My partner on the clock disagreed -- she felt it was some how unfair to make a team play shorthanded in this circumstance.

My repsonse was that if our CYO JV league is truly an instructional league (as stated in our league rule handout), this is the perfect time to teach them what happens when a team has no substitues available for an injured/disqualified player.

Agree with that. You would think that would be a no brainer.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by CDurham

Could you not use the advantage/disadvantage ruling here and give the ball to Team A with Point of Interruption just like if the scoring play was not in action and the horn went off??

The case play you reference is telling the official when to stop play and when to ignore the horn. In the OP, an out of bounds violation occurs, which is an entirely different matter.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The case play you reference is telling the official when to stop play and when to ignore the horn. In the OP, an out of bounds violation occurs, which is an entirely different matter.

Thanks J.A.R. I get your point that is what I needed to understand it.