Summer Ball - all this fun and I get paid too?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

Well, see you in the regular season buddy. I think he had the most Techs last year. Going to enjoy T'ing him up.

Lah me......

Real officials forget all about comments like that. Everybody starts fresh the next game.

You're in the wrong avocation, Mutant. You should have never crawled out of the stands.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Real officials forget all about comments like that.

Agree. However, it nice to hear postive comments from a losing coach. I just don't let it go to my head.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Everybody starts fresh the next game.

...provided you don't wear stripes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me......

Real officials forget all about comments like that. Everybody starts fresh the next game.

I am going to disagree with this. We are still talking about human beings here and anytime someone treats you with disrespect that should not be simply forgotten. Now as an official we might not go out and look for them to mess up the next time, but whatever happens the coaches do not forget, so we should not forget either. As a matter of fact the fact that I remember makes me handle the next situation differently. But I would not say they are on a clean slate, they just have my attention as they probably did not before.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As a matter of fact the fact that I remember makes me handle the next situation differently.

And I completely disagree with an attitude like that. Imo you should try to treat the next situation exactly the same way that you treat every situation. You react to that particular situation based only on what happens during that particular situation. And all coaches(good and bad) should always be treated exactly the same as any other coach, no matter what happened in the past.

As officials, what we personally think of any participant in a game should never have any bearing on any call that we make or influence us to do something that we would normally not do in similar situations. It's human nature to maybe like or dislike someone for varying reasons, but that should never be a factor imo in anything that we do during a game.

A comment like "going to enjoy T'ing him up" sends the wrong message to anyone that believes that officials should be neutral and have short memories. I've had good, level-headed coaches blow up at me when I screwed up a call at a critical point in a game. I deal with it and then forget it. There's no need ever to treat the dickhead coaches any differently imo.

Fair's fair.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

...provided you don't wear stripes.

That's part of our job and we have to expect that from some of the people that we have to deal with.

What comes up, we deal with. But we don't go looking. And we shouldn't have any pre-conceived ideas of how we should deal with a problem.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

And I completely disagree with an attitude like that. Imo you should try to treat the next situation exactly the same way that you treat every situation. You react to that particular situation based only on what happens during that particular situation. And all coaches(good and bad) should always be treated exactly the same as any other coach, no matter what happened in the past.

Treat exactly the same? I cannot agree with that at all. Even coaches do not treat their players exactly the same. Why would I treat coaches the same when they do not treat us the same. I am not saying go out and get a coach, but if a coach and I have had a problem, I might say little to nothing to that coach. I know I would probably tell my partners that I have had "history" with that coach.

There is a coach in my state that me and him never seemed to get along. It all started in a summer basketball game and every time I had him after that things would get worse. And I would have this guy every year in a major tournament. Then because I worked in his conference, I would have him again during the season and in a tournament shootout. It was to the point where it was becoming a distraction to working the games. And I never gave this guy a T, but he would go around and tell people that I was trying to throw him out of games. He even told partners this during the game and I would have the fewest fouls and say almost nothing to him unless he had a question (which he never did, just whined the entire game). And one of the reasons I hate the stop sign is the interaction I had with this coach who I gave that sign to him and it did nothing but make the situation worse. Then this same coach confronted me off the court, in a hospitality room where my mom happened to be there and even media members were present. And you think I do not see this guy in games and think of him the same as if nothing happened? Not a chance. It was so bad or obvious, that it became a running joke in a small circle my relationship or lack there of with this coach. He has not let it go; you think I am going to just be like, "OK, clean slate." I might not hold a grudge, but I certainly am not going to be phony either.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As officials, what we personally think of any participant in a game should never have any bearing on any call that we make or influence us to do something that we would normally not do in similar situations. It's human nature to maybe like or dislike someone for varying reasons, but that should never be a factor imo in anything that we do during a game.

My comments have nothing to do with calls. I am not talking about what I call. I am talking about what I might do to handle a very hostile situation with a particular person. If it was hostile before, it might be hostile again. And in order to prevent that, I would like to act like there was a past and not act like nothing took place before. I know the coach or player will not give it a clean slate, so I would not treat it the same either.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

A comment like "going to enjoy T'ing him up" sends the wrong message to anyone that believes that officials should be neutral and have short memories. I've had good, level-headed coaches blow up at me when I screwed up a call at a critical point in a game. I deal with it and then forget it. There's no need ever to treat the dickhead coaches any differently imo.

Fair's fair.

I agree in principle that makes since. But reality is that we have all had situations with coaches and we walk away thinking we did not handle the first situation the best and try to learn from them. And then we go into the next game thinking we will not allow that to happen again and might say something to that effect. In my experience I have said to myself a similar thing, but then the coach realizes they are on borrowed time and do not reach the same level and nothing happens. Funny how that works sometimes.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What comes up, we deal with. But we don't go looking. And we shouldn't have any pre-conceived ideas of how we should deal with a problem.

Concur, the slate is clean for the next game(s). But, I also don't forget a coach, team, player I might have had an issue/situation with previously.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Concur, the slate is clean for the next game(s). But, I also don't forget a coach, team, player I might have had an issue/situation with previously.

That's human nature. I'd be a liar if I said that I wasn't aware of past problems also with some coaches/players. You just can't let it affect the way that you call a game though. And you also can't let it become a distraction. You just have to take care of bidness without worrying about it.

JMO.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

1) There is a coach in my state that me and him never seemed to get along. It all started in a summer basketball game and every time I had him after that things would get worse. And I would have this guy every year in a major tournament. Then because I worked in his conference, I would have him again during the season and in a tournament shootout. It was to the point where it was becoming a distraction to working the games. And I never gave this guy a T, but he would go around and tell people that I was trying to throw him out of games. He even told partners this during the game and I would have the fewest fouls and say almost nothing to him unless he had a question (which he never did, just whined the entire game). And one of the reasons I hate the stop sign is the interaction I had with this coach who I gave that sign to him and it did nothing but make the situation worse. Then this same coach confronted me off the court, in a hospitality room where my mom happened to be there and even media members were present. And you think I do not see this guy in games and think of him the same as if nothing happened? Not a chance. It was so bad or obvious, that it became a running joke in a small circle my relationship or lack there of with this coach. He has not let it go; you think I am going to just be like, "OK, clean slate." I might not hold a grudge, but I certainly am not going to be phony either.



2) I agree in principle that makes sense. But reality is that we have all had situations with coaches and we walk away thinking we did not handle the first situation the best and try to learn from them. And then we go into the next game thinking we will not allow that to happen again and might say something to that effect. In my experience I have said to myself a similar thing, but then the coach realizes they are on borrowed time and do not reach the same level and nothing happens. Funny how that works sometimes.

Peace

1) Yabut....you didn't let this jerk affect the way that you called his game, did you? You know in your own mind that you always gave him a fair game, right? No matter what he thought? You didn't go looking to "T" him up, did you? That was my point, Jeff.

2) You looked for a possible better way to handle future confrontations. Sureashell nuthin' the matter with that. You didn't restrict yourself to "I'm gonna "T" his azz up as soon as he looks at me sideways." There's always different routes to the same destination, but that route shouldn't include looking for confrontation imo. As I said, just deal with what happens.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Yabut....you didn't let this jerk affect the way that you called his game, did you? You know in your own mind that you always gave him a fair game, right? No matter what he thought? You didn't go looking to "T" him up, did you? That was my point, Jeff.

Of course not. But it did affect how I approached him and it did affect what I said or did not say to my partners. Even in once case I did not say anything to two guys I had never worked with up until that point and the coach made very obvious comments to my partner where at half time one of my partners said to me, "This guy really hates you." And I had this coach about 3 more times after that.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) You looked for a possible better way to handle future confrontations. Sureashell nuthin' the matter with that. You didn't restrict yourself to "I'm gonna "T" his azz up as soon as he looks at me sideways." There's always different routes to the same destination, but that route shouldn't include looking for confrontation imo. As I said, just deal with what happens.

True, I am just saying that to give a coach a clean slate sound great on paper, but does not work in practice all the time. All I am saying is do not forget when someone is treating you with completely and total disrespect. And you do not have to gun for them to make a point. If any coach is smart they know when they were out of line and that an official might have their number. I am just saying that you might have to talk about it with partners so that there is not something coming out of left field. I want to know when partners have problems with a coach so that "we" can handle the situation differently as a crew.

Peace

[bainsey]

I think we all agree more than we disagree here.

There are coaches that we respect more so than others. That will always be the case. But, no-one is saying we sway our calls accordingly. To do so would be to work without integrity. However, if someone treats you unfairly, it's unrealistic to expect people to simply forget about it.

My point was, while we should give people a "fresh start" each game, we simply can't expect others to do the same for us. Even our fellow board members have varying degrees of respect of us. Is that fair? Probably not, but the paradigm that everyone has a fresh start includes a caveat. Just because you're looking to treat others fairly doesn't mean that others will reciprocate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"Going to enjoy T'ing him up

A few years ago we had a very obnoxious coach who, after a serious injury to one of his players, who had been fouled, which was called, complained to me, and my partner, that some additional foul calls, previous to the injury, could have prevented the injury. He did this while both he, and his trainer, were attending to the injured player. We just moved further away from the "injury pow wow" to encourage the coach to just tend to his player. This was just a few minutes before halftime. During halftime my partner and I discussed the situation, and we both agreed that neither of us had charged a technical foul because both of us, independently, decided that a technical foul charged, in this particular situation, would have called attention away from the serious injury to the player. We both agreed that in the second half that the coach would have absolutely no leeway in terms of unsporting behavior. We left the locker room intent on charging a technical foul. First, and only time, in twenty-nine years, that I was "targeting" a coach. Wouldn't you know it, the coach didn't make a single complaint in the entire second half.

A missed chance. If something like this happens again, the technical will be charged, in a quiet manner, after the injured player is attended to. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, double shame on me.

[mutantducky]

good posts...

I rarely give out T's and only one to a coach and never to that one I mentioned. If I do give him a T it will be deserved but no there will not be a clean slate. Refs might let something slide the first game and give warnings but it adds up and no reason to let a coach continue his behavior. Some coaches and refs know each other and T's are no big deal because they respect each other(somewhat) but this coach is just a dick.
so if he doesn't show the refs respect then yeah I'll T him up. If another coach did the exact same thing but it is the first time I'm reffing one of his/her games I might pass on a T but not with someone I've had issues with in the past.

Another thing. When I first started out I had other refs sometimes say "watch out for this coach", don't be afraid to give him a T" etc. I'd rather them not say anything and I'll be my own judge. So if I'm working with a partner who hasn't had the coach I'll keep my mouth shut and if I have the same coach I mentioned I won't bring up that incident but that's as far as my clean slate goes.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

...so if he doesn't show the refs respect then yeah I'll T him up. If another coach did the exact same thing but it is the first time I'm reffing one of his/her games I might pass on a T...

Why the difference? Why is the action T-worthy for one individual, but not another for the exact same action?