Block/Player Control/No Call

[Zoochy]

I know you guys are extending the original post to include a player on the ground. Contact occurred while both players were upright. I was observed by a 'senior, State caliber' official. He asked me about my Player Control Foul. I told him from my angle I saw A1 turn and have torso/torso contact w/B1. He said from his angle he saw B1 lean back, not sideways, absorb minimal contact, and in his words, Flopped. Then went on to say that B1 lost LGP when he leaned back, thus the ruling would be either 'No Call or Blocking Foul'. I used the same Rules/examples that JR, Nevada and Snaqwells used to justify my call. He then proceeded to write additional comments on my evaluation form. He would not tell me what the comment was, but I am assuming it is along the lines of 'Argumentive. Does not respect constructive criticism.'

[Adam]

Too bad we can't critique the evaluators. Sometimes a bit of book smacking is in order.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Too bad we can't critique the evaluators. Sometimes a bit of book smacking is in order.

Very applicable to the one that Zoochy got. It's tough when the person being evaluated has a better understanding of the rules than the evaluator.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Very applicable to the one that Zoochy got. It's tough when the person being evaluated has a better understanding of the rules than the evaluator.

That's when you have to learn when to fold 'em. While you may have the winning hand, sometimes it's best for your career to fold anyway.

Had a veteran partner recently call OOB on a player returning to the court because he didn't establish with both feet. I know that's why he called it because he took a moment to explain the call. He's a guy who has given me great feedback in the past, and I respect him immensely. I've had evaluator-level partners get into discussions about pivot cheeks when an airborne player gathers the ball and proceeds to land on his arse.

Yet I know I have a lot to learn from these folks about handling coaches and problem players, as well as positioning and other nuances.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And LGP is not required to absolve a player from responsibility for the contact.

Hey, I was just going to say that.

Originally Posted by mbyron

Exactly. That's the primary issue here: some officials seem to think that the ONLY way to avoid being guilty of a block is for the defender to have LGP.

And then, I was going to say that.

But, I guess I'm not getting on the board early enough, so I will defer to the earlybirds.

[Zoochy]

Should I forward the link of this thread to the evaluator?
Or do I just 'fold'?
Can anything good come out of this?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Should I forward the link of this thread to the evaluator?
Or do I just 'fold'?
Can anything good come out of this?

Fold. You don't know how the evaluator is going to respond. Politics can be tough but they're a fact of life in some instances unfortunately.

JMO.

[Adam]

Fold. If he was insisting he was right, sending him this link isn't going to convince him otherwise, and will only reinforce his opinion that you're a "yeah-but-guy."

If he was actually noting that you knew the rule well, sending him the link will only hurt. There is nothing good that can come from pushing this.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I know you guys are extending the original post to include a player on the ground. Contact occurred while both players were upright. I was observed by a 'senior, State caliber' official. He asked me about my Player Control Foul. I told him from my angle I saw A1 turn and have torso/torso contact w/B1. He said from his angle he saw B1 lean back, not sideways, absorb minimal contact, and in his words, Flopped. Then went on to say that B1 lost LGP when he leaned back, thus the ruling would be either 'No Call or Blocking Foul'. I used the same Rules/examples that JR, Nevada and Snaqwells used to justify my call. He then proceeded to write additional comments on my evaluation form. He would not tell me what the comment was, but I am assuming it is along the lines of 'Argumentive. Does not respect constructive criticism.'

Your evaluation situation is unfortunate, but you can take it from another "senior, State caliber official" that your understanding of the rule is 100% correct. It's tough to find quality evaluators.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Very applicable to the one that Zoochy got. It's tough when the person being evaluated has a better understanding of the rules than the evaluator.

True.
If one pays attention to Zoochy's posts on this forum, which I'd like to see more of, one will notice that they convey a very solid grasp of the rules.
He is never asking a basic question. There is always something there to make us ponder.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I know you guys are extending the original post to include a player on the ground. Contact occurred while both players were upright. I was observed by a 'senior, State caliber' official. He asked me about my Player Control Foul. I told him from my angle I saw A1 turn and have torso/torso contact w/B1. He said from his angle he saw B1 lean back, not sideways, absorb minimal contact, and in his words, Flopped. Then went on to say that B1 lost LGP when he leaned back, thus the ruling would be either 'No Call or Blocking Foul'

Scrappy, this is what we've been discussing. B1 falling backward to avoid the contact and A1 going straight forward and landing on the defender. Are you really going to call that a block 90% of the time?

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

He then proceeded to write additional comments on my evaluation form. He would not tell me what the comment was, ...

I know I'm late to this party - but I have a problem with this. Why can't an official see his own evaluation? This does not help an official to improve himself.

[bradfordwilkins]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I know I'm late to this party - but I have a problem with this. Why can't an official see his own evaluation? This does not help an official to improve himself.

Maybe it was a try-out camp?

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by sseltser

I know I'm late to this party - but I have a problem with this. Why can't an official see his own evaluation? This does not help an official to improve himself.

I saw his original comments
-Good Positioning
-Referee the Defense
His additional comment was writen after my discussion with him about his statement that "the defender loses LGP when he leans back"