When a block is a foul

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I would have to disagree with you here. We always preach protect the shooter and if there is significant contact, your words, after the block we still have to protect the shooter until they return to the floor. IMO we miss a lot of fouls on the defense and the offense when the shot is blocked. The key word being significant and not incidental contact. I think we miss a ton of offense fouls when a defender is set to take a charge and another defender blocks the shot.

I honestly do not like that standard at all. That means that if a player falls hard to the ground, we penalize the defense just because the player fell hard (based on that logic). The force of the actual block might be the reason they fell, not that the defender did so illegally. I believe the incidental rule was written for plays like this. And honestly I do not call a foul or not call a foul based on the severity of the contact. What happened first is my standard. And no I am not talking about a cheap or purposely violent play which has other ramifications. But on a simply block, they get the ball first, I am letting the rest of the contact go.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I honestly do not like that standard at all. That means that if a player falls hard to the ground, we penalize the defense just because the player fell hard (based on that logic). The force of the actual block might be the reason they fell, not that the defender did so illegally. I believe the incidental rule was written for plays like this. And honestly I do not call a foul or not call a foul based on the severity of the contact. What happened first is my standard. And no I am not talking about a cheap or purposely violent play which has other ramifications. But on a simply block, they get the ball first, I am letting the rest of the contact go.

Peace

I guess this is one of those plays where you have to see it to call it or no call it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I guess this is one of those plays where you have to see it to call it or no call it.

I have yet to see a clean block where I feel I should call it.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Only other official in our area that I am unwilling to work with is a result of this conversation. We did a half dozen games together and ended up in heated discussions at half time or after the game. At his request our assignor no longer pairs us.

My feeling: Once the ball has been blocked any arm or mild body contact after that is not putting anyone at a disadvantage so no call. How does someone getting hit in the arm as the ball is flying out of bounds disadvantaging them.

His feeling: You cannot hit a airborne player it is inherently reckless and effects the players body control, movement in air and on landing, while putting the player at risk of a hard landing or injury from not being able to avoid/absorb the contact. He falls back to I must protect the shooter.

The big issue we have is with players who block the ball and then their arm motion carries their arms into the arms of the original shooter once the ball has been blocked. I'm trying to no call and he's blowing the whistle assuming I missed the arm contact.

[Adam]

I'll bet he has long games and frustrated post players.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Only other official in our area that I am unwilling to work with is a result of this conversation. We did a half dozen games together and ended up in heated discussions at half time or after the game. At his request our assignor no longer pairs us.

My feeling: Once the ball has been blocked any arm or mild body contact after that is not putting anyone at a disadvantage so no call. How does someone getting hit in the arm as the ball is flying out of bounds disadvantaging them.

His feeling: You cannot hit a airborne player it is inherently reckless and effects the players body control, movement in air and on landing, while putting the player at risk of a hard landing or injury from not being able to avoid/absorb the contact. He falls back to I must protect the shooter.

The big issue we have is with players who block the ball and then their arm motion carries their arms into the arms of the original shooter once the ball has been blocked. I'm trying to no call and he's blowing the whistle assuming I missed the arm contact.

Key wording, "mild body contact!"

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have yet to see a clean block where I feel I should call it.

Peace

I guess the definition of a clean block is up for interpretation!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I guess the definition of a clean block is up for interpretation!

Yeah, probably. But since anytime you call a foul on a clean block (where the ball is touched up top) you better have more than simply some body contact to call a foul. That is the way it is expected to be called, that is the way I call it.

You can do what you want and you certainly do not have to follow what I do. I just know that when these are blocks are made, I hardly hear a peep if nothing is called but an out of bounds or a play on is ruled.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, probably. But since anytime you call a foul on a clean block (where the ball is touched up top) you better have more than simply some body contact to call a foul. That is the way it is expected to be called, that is the way I call it.

You can do what you want and you certainly do not have to follow what I do. I just know that when these are blocks are made, I hardly hear a peep if nothing is called but an out of bounds or a play on is ruled.

Peace

Totally agree with you, but some coaches and players think if you get "any" part of the ball all bets are off with significant contact, not incidental or mild.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Totally agree with you, but some coaches and players think if you get "any" part of the ball all bets are off with significant contact, not incidental or mild.

The rule of thumb is:
1) coaches and players think that it's a foul any time an opponent gets any part of the ball, whether there's any subsequent contact or not after that.
2) coaches and players think that it's a good block if they get any part of the ball any time on an opponent's shot, no matter what what the subsequent contact may be.

And that's why we never listen to the coaches or players when they start to whine about the above.

Just make the call and move on.