When a block is a foul

[MD Longhorn]

If you see significant contact before the block, call it.

If the ball is blocked already when significant contact happens, think about what you have... you have a loose ball, no one has possession... and you have two guys up in the air making contact with one another - neither has right-of-way, so to speak... so unless contact was malicious after the block, you have nothing.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If you see significant contact before the block, call it.

If the ball is blocked already when significant contact happens, think about what you have... you have a loose ball, no one has possession... and you have two guys up in the air making contact with one another - neither has right-of-way, so to speak... so unless contact was malicious after the block, you have nothing.

I disagree, slightly, I think. The shooter still has the "right of way," but 99% of the time the contact isn't creating any sort of advantage. If, however, the contact knocks the shooter to the floor, it should probably be a foul. Malice isn't required, IMO.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If you see significant contact before the block, call it.

If the ball is blocked already when significant contact happens, think about what you have... you have a loose ball, no one has possession... and you have two guys up in the air making contact with one another - neither has right-of-way, so to speak... so unless contact was malicious after the block, you have nothing.

I would have to disagree with you here. We always preach protect the shooter and if there is significant contact, your words, after the block we still have to protect the shooter until they return to the floor. IMO we miss a lot of fouls on the defense and the offense when the shot is blocked. The key word being significant and not incidental contact. I think we miss a ton of offense fouls when a defender is set to take a charge and another defender blocks the shot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I would have to disagree with you here. We always preach protect the shooter and if there is significant contact, your words, after the block we still have to protect the shooter until they return to the floor. IMO we miss a lot of fouls on the defense and the offense when the shot is blocked. The key word being significant and not incidental contact. I think we miss a ton of offense fouls when a defender is set to take a charge and another defender blocks the shot.

I honestly do not like that standard at all. That means that if a player falls hard to the ground, we penalize the defense just because the player fell hard (based on that logic). The force of the actual block might be the reason they fell, not that the defender did so illegally. I believe the incidental rule was written for plays like this. And honestly I do not call a foul or not call a foul based on the severity of the contact. What happened first is my standard. And no I am not talking about a cheap or purposely violent play which has other ramifications. But on a simply block, they get the ball first, I am letting the rest of the contact go.

Peace

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I honestly do not like that standard at all. That means that if a player falls hard to the ground, we penalize the defense just because the player fell hard (based on that logic). The force of the actual block might be the reason they fell, not that the defender did so illegally. I believe the incidental rule was written for plays like this. And honestly I do not call a foul or not call a foul based on the severity of the contact. What happened first is my standard. And no I am not talking about a cheap or purposely violent play which has other ramifications. But on a simply block, they get the ball first, I am letting the rest of the contact go.

Peace

I guess this is one of those plays where you have to see it to call it or no call it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I guess this is one of those plays where you have to see it to call it or no call it.

I have yet to see a clean block where I feel I should call it.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Only other official in our area that I am unwilling to work with is a result of this conversation. We did a half dozen games together and ended up in heated discussions at half time or after the game. At his request our assignor no longer pairs us.

My feeling: Once the ball has been blocked any arm or mild body contact after that is not putting anyone at a disadvantage so no call. How does someone getting hit in the arm as the ball is flying out of bounds disadvantaging them.

His feeling: You cannot hit a airborne player it is inherently reckless and effects the players body control, movement in air and on landing, while putting the player at risk of a hard landing or injury from not being able to avoid/absorb the contact. He falls back to I must protect the shooter.

The big issue we have is with players who block the ball and then their arm motion carries their arms into the arms of the original shooter once the ball has been blocked. I'm trying to no call and he's blowing the whistle assuming I missed the arm contact.

[Adam]

I'll bet he has long games and frustrated post players.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Only other official in our area that I am unwilling to work with is a result of this conversation. We did a half dozen games together and ended up in heated discussions at half time or after the game. At his request our assignor no longer pairs us.

My feeling: Once the ball has been blocked any arm or mild body contact after that is not putting anyone at a disadvantage so no call. How does someone getting hit in the arm as the ball is flying out of bounds disadvantaging them.

His feeling: You cannot hit a airborne player it is inherently reckless and effects the players body control, movement in air and on landing, while putting the player at risk of a hard landing or injury from not being able to avoid/absorb the contact. He falls back to I must protect the shooter.

The big issue we have is with players who block the ball and then their arm motion carries their arms into the arms of the original shooter once the ball has been blocked. I'm trying to no call and he's blowing the whistle assuming I missed the arm contact.

Key wording, "mild body contact!"

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have yet to see a clean block where I feel I should call it.

Peace

I guess the definition of a clean block is up for interpretation!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I guess the definition of a clean block is up for interpretation!

Yeah, probably. But since anytime you call a foul on a clean block (where the ball is touched up top) you better have more than simply some body contact to call a foul. That is the way it is expected to be called, that is the way I call it.

You can do what you want and you certainly do not have to follow what I do. I just know that when these are blocks are made, I hardly hear a peep if nothing is called but an out of bounds or a play on is ruled.

Peace