Three things to watch in a single play

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by sseltser

To those who are saying travel, do you mean at the beginning of the drive or at the end?....

At the beginning, I still can't tell if whether he releases the ball or lifts his pivot first.

The pivot foot comes up first. It's not easy to catch at normal speed, but every game we work is at normal speed.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by bainsey

every game we work is at normal speed.

Except middle school girls . . .

[jeffpea]

no travel
no block/charge - from this angle it looked like a flop.
rebound was fine - hard to see if contact occured that gained an advantage.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

no travel

Given that you're the only one who says this. What did you see?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Given that you're the only one who says this. What did you see?

Probably the same thing the officials on the game saw? I'm with you SNAQdaddy that the video and the angle make it tough to tell. That being the case a 'wise" OLD man once said that if you are not there you shouldn't criticize, that would be like eating your young!!!
In all seriousness, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the NO CALLS made in this situation. While everyone agrees that we had a flop and no rebounding foul, the case for traveling is being made with a lot of "seems" "appears" etc. While I would fall into that "appears" "from this angle" crowd, since I am not 100% I'll defer to the people there.
(Unless my earlier post about the location was correct then I stand by my original thoughts!)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Probably the same thing the officials on the game saw? I'm with you SNAQdaddy that the video and the angle make it tough to tell. That being the case a 'wise" OLD man once said that if you are not there you shouldn't criticize, that would be like eating your young!!!
In all seriousness, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the NO CALLS made in this situation. While everyone agrees that we had a flop and no rebounding foul, the case for traveling is being made with a lot of "seems" "appears" etc. While I would fall into that "appears" "from this angle" crowd, since I am not 100% I'll defer to the people there.
(Unless my earlier post about the location was correct then I stand by my original thoughts!)

I was just curious that he simply said "no travel," as if he would have disagreed with the officials had they made a travel call. He may have just been offering a short version of, "I can't tell, so no travel."

[CLH]

1) Travel is to close to put a whistle on for me. If I'm gonna kill the game for a travel, its going to be clear and obvious. That one is just to close to clearly say, yep its a travel without the benefit of slow mo and all that crap. I'm not cracking a whistle on this one.

2) Flop

3) Rebounder had a height advantage and was able to reach over a shorter rebounder. Doesn't look like much to me from this angle, play on!

[tref]

Originally Posted by CLH

1) Travel is to close to put a whistle on for me. If I'm gonna kill the game for a travel, its going to be clear and obvious. That one is just to close to clearly say, yep its a travel without the benefit of slow mo and all that crap. I'm not cracking a whistle on this one.

I agree! I've been told that, if you have to rewind the play 3-5 times to see the travel its probably a GI. I dont call marginal travels...

[Jesse James]

The player probably lifts his pivot before the release of the dribble, but if you run varsity/college games back in slow-motion, the same thing will occur an incredible amount of times, and not by just a whisker, without a call.

IMO, the desire to call it in this one stems from the long stride in the first step.

[Kelvin green]

Travel...

It is grainy but once he picks up the ball (or appears to) there is a step and then then two more because his "jump stop" has two distinct steps it has to be travel...

If this is a marginal travel call then I call way too many...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Travel...because his "jump stop" has two distinct steps it has to be travel.

Agree. Still a tough call in a real time, real game situation. It took me several views of the video to spot the violation.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Given that you're the only one who says this. What did you see?

I saw a player who clearly established his left foot as his pivot foot on the catch. I saw a player start a drive to his right using his right foot to start the drive. I saw a player alight nearly simultaneously (aka jump stop) before jumping to release his shot.

At no point did I see a travel violation committed by the offensive player.

IMHO, the only place that I can see someone calling a travel would be on the jump stop - and even then, I would disagree with that call.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I saw a player who clearly established his left foot as his pivot foot on the catch. I saw a player start a drive to his right using his right foot to start the drive. I saw a player alight nearly simultaneously (aka jump stop) before jumping to release his shot.

At no point did I see a travel violation committed by the offensive player.

IMHO, the only place that I can see someone calling a travel would be on the jump stop - and even then, I would disagree with that call.

Fair enough. It looked to me like he may have pulled his pivot foot before releasing the dribble, but I'm basing that more on ground covered since the video is too grainy to tell for sure. OTOH, the official on ball didn't call it, so deferring to his judgment wouldn't be a bad way to go either.

I was just curious to your reasoning.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

I saw a player who clearly established his left foot as his pivot foot on the catch. I saw a player start a drive to his right using his right foot to start the drive. I saw a player alight nearly simultaneously (aka jump stop) before jumping to release his shot.

At no point did I see a travel violation committed by the offensive player.

IMHO, the only place that I can see someone calling a travel would be on the jump stop - and even then, I would disagree with that call.

I guess I missed the section in the rule book that says a jump stop can be nearly simultaneous. If there are two distinct steps it is a travel.

[jeffpea]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I guess I missed the section in the rule book that says a jump stop can be nearly simultaneous. If there are two distinct steps it is a travel.

check out the section about establishing a pivot foot. it discusses what a player can/cannot do when both feet hit the floor simultaneously and what a player can/cannot do when a player "alights his/her feet nearly simultaneously". there is a difference....the initial act - deemed to be a jump stop - is not considered traveling.

in my experience, the higher the level you work, the more you will see the jump stop (whether simultaneous or nearly simultaneous) used.