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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:07am
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Originally Posted by Da Official View Post
bas2456, I was'nt there but if the A1 is dribbling the ball and hand is on the ball when the LOUD slap occurred per rule I have nothing, however if the A1 is standing there holding the ball when he gets the crap knocked out of him I most likely have a foul (a stupid foul that B1 has earned and I'm sure Coach B would probably not object to).
If the slap is on the wrist, it very well could be a foul. If it's close, it's on the hand. Whether he's dribbling or holding doesn't matter.

1. Where is the slap (hand or not-hand)?
2. Did it cause any hardship to the ball handler?
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:15am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
If the slap is on the wrist, it very well could be a foul. If it's close, it's on the hand. Whether he's dribbling or holding doesn't matter.

1. Where is the slap (hand or not-hand)?
2. Did it cause any hardship to the ball handler?
Snaq, my eyesight is NOT good enough to determine the wrist. I either see a hand or an arm. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously though...I don't have a rule book present but its my understanding if a defender accidentically hits the hand of the dribbler while the dribbler's hand is in contact with the ball it is not a foul.

Also, if you punch or slap me in the face or my hand TO ME I've been caused hardship BUT not sure if that's a rule of law I should follow since by rule you can accidentally slap my hand if I'm dribbling.

If this doesnt' jive with the NFHS rules please advise.
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Last edited by Da Official; Tue May 11, 2010 at 10:22am.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:23am
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Whether the player is dribbling or holding the ball, the defender may slap his hand provided the slap is incidental to an attempt to slap the ball. Dribbling vs holding is irrelevant.

Let's leave the punch out of it, as that's a flagrant foul regardless of advantage.
Let's leave the face out of it, as I'm calling a slap in the face unless the dribbler is in the process of blowing by the defender for a layup.

A slap on the hand is a slap on the hand, perfectly legal.

A slap on the wrist that doesn't cause any hinderance to the offensive player is incidental contact most of the time. Same as a slap on the arm or leg.

Now, in practice, we may have to get this sometimes in the open court.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:28am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Whether the player is dribbling or holding the ball, the defender may slap his hand provided the slap is incidental to an attempt to slap the ball. Dribbling vs holding is irrelevant.

Let's leave the punch out of it, as that's a flagrant foul regardless of advantage.
Let's leave the face out of it, as I'm calling a slap in the face unless the dribbler is in the process of blowing by the defender for a layup.

A slap on the hand is a slap on the hand, perfectly legal.

A slap on the wrist that doesn't cause any hinderance to the offensive player is incidental contact most of the time. Same as a slap on the arm or leg.

Now, in practice, we may have to get this sometimes in the open court.
Snaq, thanks for the insight. I'll check over my rules to make sure I have this down. I do agree sometimes we do have to call this in the open court. Thx!
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:31am
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Originally Posted by Da Official View Post
Snaq, thanks for the insight. I'll check over my rules to make sure I have this down. I do agree sometimes we do have to call this in the open court. Thx!
By the way, let me know if I'm wrong. my book is at home so I'm going off memory here. I'd rather you correct me than Nevada, for reasons that are entirely juvenile.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 10:36am
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After reading the responses, I think I should have let it go. Despite the loud slap, A1 was standing still, holding the ball (not dribbling), 80 feet from the basket.

A1 didn't lose control of the ball on the slap, thus not put at a disadvantage. A more patient whistle from me would have allowed us to play on.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 11:10am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Whether the player is dribbling or holding the ball, the defender may slap his hand provided the slap is incidental to an attempt to slap the ball. Dribbling vs holding is irrelevant.
...
A slap on the hand is a slap on the hand, perfectly legal.

A slap on the wrist that doesn't cause any hinderance to the offensive player is incidental contact most of the time. Same as a slap on the arm or leg.

Now, in practice, we may have to get this sometimes in the open court.
paraphrased from NCAA rules -
legal use of the hand(s) includes contact with player's hand while the player's hand is in contact with the ball while player has player control (of the ball)
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 12:59pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
1) Let's leave the face out of it, as I'm calling a slap in the face unless the dribbler is in the process of blowing by the defender for a layup.

2)A slap on the wrist that doesn't cause any hinderance to the offensive player is incidental contact most of the time. Same as a slap on the arm or leg.
Now, in practice, we may have to get this sometimes in the open court.
1) Say what? Even if your patient whistle tells you that no advantage was gained by the slap in the face and the dribbler's RSBQ wasn't disrupted?

2) Bingo! Most but not all of the time it may not be a foul. But there are times when you still have to go and get it. There are situations where that slap on the wrist is no different than a slap in the face for all intents and purposes.


'Tis a funny game to have to call sometimes. It's awful tough to place absolutes on any particular genre of foul.

Good points imo, Snaqs, and I certainly agree with you.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 01:08pm
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
1) Say what? Even if your patient whistle tells you that no advantage was gained by the slap in the face and the dribbler's RSBQ wasn't disrupted?
Yep, see below....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
2) Bingo! Most but not all of the time it may not be a foul. But there are times when you still have to go and get it. There are situations where that slap on the wrist is no different than a slap in the face for all intents and purposes.


'Tis a funny game to have to call sometimes. It's awful tough to place absolutes on any particular genre of foul.

Good points imo, Snaqs, and I certainly agree with you.
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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 01:34pm
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I will not ever call a foul based on what I hear. I only call fouls on what I see. If the slap caused a disadvantage, then it should be called, not just because you hear skin coming together. And I do not agree about sending a message. I only call what I fell is illegal, not what I think is illegal because I "think" I hear something. What if the slap was while the ball was on the hand? That is not a foul according to the rules.

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Old Tue May 11, 2010, 01:44pm
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I will not ever call a foul based on what I hear. I only call fouls on what I see. If the slap caused a disadvantage, then it should be called, not just because you hear skin coming together. And I do not agree about sending a message. I only call what I fell is illegal, not what I think is illegal because I "think" I hear something. What if the slap was while the ball was on the hand? That is not a foul according to the rules.

Peace
Amen to this. I think most of us have assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the whack occurred and was seen & heard by the whole gym. I agree though, we can't guess and have to see the foul versus make an assumption based on what we hear.
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