Loud Slap

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's what I think. If you don't call it, you could be sending a message that you condone it.

Slapping at the ball is usually risky, because you might make contact with something else other than the hand. If B1 did this, you have nothing to ponder.

Just playing devil's advocate, but who are we to want the players to turn and run back downcourt on defense? I'd be just as happy if he stopped slapping at the ball, but that's allowed too, so why should I want it to stop?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Just playing devil's advocate, but who are we to want the players to turn and run back downcourt on defense?

Where'd you get that idea? I was only talking about the risks of slapping.

[GoodwillRef]

Call the foul...they get 5 of them.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Where'd you get that idea? I was only talking about the risks of slapping.

Maybe from this exchange?

Originally Posted by jeffpea

When you call this a foul, players quickly learn NOT to do that (slap/grab/etc) and simply run back down court on defense.

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's what I think. If you don't call it, you could be sending a message that you condone it.

Slapping at the ball is usually risky, because you might make contact with something else other than the hand. If B1 did this, you have nothing to ponder.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Call the foul...they get 5 of them.

But by rule, it's not a foul. Why would you call it and penalize the offense?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Call the foul...they get 5 of them.

Why is it a foul? If you intend to move up to varsity ball, you have to let this go.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe from this exchange?

Jeff said "run down the court." I was only referring to the slap.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

1) Let's leave the face out of it, as I'm calling a slap in the face unless the dribbler is in the process of blowing by the defender for a layup.

2)A slap on the wrist that doesn't cause any hinderance to the offensive player is incidental contact most of the time. Same as a slap on the arm or leg.
Now, in practice, we may have to get this sometimes in the open court.

1) Say what? Even if your patient whistle tells you that no advantage was gained by the slap in the face and the dribbler's RSBQ wasn't disrupted?

2) Bingo! Most but not all of the time it may not be a foul. But there are times when you still have to go and get it. There are situations where that slap on the wrist is no different than a slap in the face for all intents and purposes.


'Tis a funny game to have to call sometimes. It's awful tough to place absolutes on any particular genre of foul.

Good points imo, Snaqs, and I certainly agree with you.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Say what? Even if your patient whistle tells you that no advantage was gained by the slap in the face and the dribbler's RSBQ wasn't disrupted?

Yep, see below....

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) Bingo! Most but not all of the time it may not be a foul. But there are times when you still have to go and get it. There are situations where that slap on the wrist is no different than a slap in the face for all intents and purposes.


'Tis a funny game to have to call sometimes. It's awful tough to place absolutes on any particular genre of foul.

Good points imo, Snaqs, and I certainly agree with you.

[JRutledge]

I will not ever call a foul based on what I hear. I only call fouls on what I see. If the slap caused a disadvantage, then it should be called, not just because you hear skin coming together. And I do not agree about sending a message. I only call what I fell is illegal, not what I think is illegal because I "think" I hear something. What if the slap was while the ball was on the hand? That is not a foul according to the rules.

Peace

[Tio]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will not ever call a foul based on what I hear. I only call fouls on what I see. If the slap caused a disadvantage, then it should be called, not just because you hear skin coming together. And I do not agree about sending a message. I only call what I fell is illegal, not what I think is illegal because I "think" I hear something. What if the slap was while the ball was on the hand? That is not a foul according to the rules.

Peace

Amen to this. I think most of us have assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the whack occurred and was seen & heard by the whole gym. I agree though, we can't guess and have to see the foul versus make an assumption based on what we hear.

[Adam]

I think the point of the OP is that you see the slap, it doesn't really affect anything, but everyone in the gym can hear it. It's so loud it makes Jonny stop playing with his diaper and look at the ref waiting for a call.

Higher levels of basketball expect this to get let go. Lower levels, it may be different.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think the point of the OP is that you see the slap, it doesn't really affect anything, but everyone in the gym can hear it. It's so loud it makes Jonny stop playing with his diaper and look at the ref waiting for a call.

Higher levels of basketball expect this to get let go. Lower levels, it may be different.

Why is this?

Rut, in the OP I might have left out the fact that I saw the contact, and it definitely was NOT on the hand, which both of A1's hands were on the ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Why is this?

Simple, lower level ball is played, coached, and administered (usually) by people with less experience. The higher you get, the more the players and coaches realize the ramifciations of "not all contact is a foul." It's at the same level coaches start to realize why it's not a foul when their point guard gets his leg slapped as he blows by the defender.

It's at the same level I had a coach get mad because I called a foul on the other team, taking a layup away from his team.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Simple, lower level ball is played, coached, and administered (usually) by people with less experience. The higher you get, the more the players and coaches realize the ramifciations of "not all contact is a foul." It's at the same level coaches start to realize why it's not a foul when their point guard gets his leg slapped as he blows by the defender.

It's at the same level I had a coach get mad because I called a foul on the other team, taking a layup away from his team.

So then what's wrong with applying the advantage/disadvantage principle earlier, so that more people learn sooner?