Coming in on partners call

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Can't remember game this weekend, might have been Pittsburgh/Xavier. A1 passes to A2 near C on sideline. It is clearly off of A2 as B1 has the C screened. C blows and gives ball to A, thinking B tipped it. Lead comes running over, gives info and C changes his call, B's ball.

It clearly was right call yet it was right in front of A coach who went ballistic.

You need to fix so much in your scenario.
If you are considering the inbounding side to be Team A, by your labeling, then the bench and coach who was complaining was B.
The pass was clearly tipped by B1, and A2 had the C screened.
The C initially gave the ball to Team B, thinking that A2 tipped it or that no one had touched the pass.
It was the TRAIL who came over and informed the C that he needed to change his call, and he then awarded the ball to Team A.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You need to fix so much in your scenario.
If you are considering the inbounding side to be Team A, by your labeling, then the bench and coach who was complaining was B.
The pass was clearly tipped by B1, and A2 had the C screened.
The C initially gave the ball to Team B, thinking that A2 tipped it or that no one had touched the pass.
It was the TRAIL who came over and informed the C that he needed to change his call, and he then awarded the ball to Team A.

You're probably correct, I don't recall particulars. I'd be bad identifying someone in a police lineup.

So, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, I'll change my call.

[zeedonk]

Interesting discussion- I attended a D1 game worked by a friend of mine who has been working with younger (less experienced) HS officials when the same situation occurred. He was T and L had an OOB call. T didn't hit the whistle at all, just quickly ran to L to say he had 100% knowledge that ball should go the other way. L nodded his head, T went back to his position and L stayed with his call.

What my friend has been preaching to us was to 1- get the call right 2- in this situation, don't give the whistle a workout, just come in to your partner and tell him/her you have 100% knowledge that the call should go the other way and back off and let partner change his mind or not and 3- we are not coming in to partner unless you are 100% sure.

This leads to #4- if partner chooses to stay with his call, well, then, that's all you can do and your *** is covered if your cadet supervisor, HS assignor, college assignor or NCAA tourney observer is watching intently.... I wonder what points are given to the official who comes in with definite knowledge and is refused and the play was wrong... does he advance over the the partner who stays with his call? (I'm sure that's not the only criteria, but it might have a lot to say about the overall performance evaluation, no?)

Z

[Texas Aggie]

You don't come in to change the call. You come in to give your partner your info as to what you saw. Then it's up to the original caller to decide what to do.

I disagree. We pregame it, but if you come in on me, we ARE changing the call. We're not going to debate it, we aren't going to ask "did you see the whole play" or some other nonsense, we are simply changing the call. Now, whoever made the original call is the one who is going to change it by blowing their whistle, pointing a different direction, and verbally indicating the color jersey who now gets the ball. DO NOT come in with the change -- the calling official will make the change. And he WILL make the change. After that, like it or not, he deals with the coaches but the other official should assist in that if possible.

There's no rational alternative. What's the point of going in if not to get the call correct? You know from pregame that you aren't (or I'm not) coming in unless we are 110% sure we are correct. This "give him information" stuff doesn't work. What information? "The ball went off red; its white's ball." Anything short of that, we aren't coming in because we are going to trust that our partner got it right -- that he might have seen something we didn't. Its unreasonable for you to come to me with 110% correct information and for me to tell you "I got this" or to MYOB.

This is easier than a lot of people make it out to be, but you MUST pregame this. Plus, you association needs to get an understanding of how to handle this.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I disagree. We pregame it, but if you come in on me, we ARE changing the call. We're not going to debate it, we aren't going to ask "did you see the whole play" or some other nonsense, we are simply changing the call. Now, whoever made the original call is the one who is going to change it by blowing their whistle, pointing a different direction, and verbally indicating the color jersey who now gets the ball. DO NOT come in with the change -- the calling official will make the change. And he WILL make the change. After that, like it or not, he deals with the coaches but the other official should assist in that if possible.

There's no rational alternative. What's the point of going in if not to get the call correct? You know from pregame that you aren't (or I'm not) coming in unless we are 110% sure we are correct. This "give him information" stuff doesn't work. What information? "The ball went off red; its white's ball." Anything short of that, we aren't coming in because we are going to trust that our partner got it right -- that he might have seen something we didn't. Its unreasonable for you to come to me with 110% correct information and for me to tell you "I got this" or to MYOB.

This is easier than a lot of people make it out to be, but you MUST pregame this. Plus, you association needs to get an understanding of how to handle this.

No. There are a number of possibilities where each official not being able to see the entire play....for example, double tips in different areas of the court...each official sees one and only one. Get to gether, share information, get it right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

We pregame it, but if you come in on me, we ARE changing the call. We're not going to debate it, we aren't going to ask "did you see the whole play" or some other nonsense, we are simply changing the call.

There's no rational alternative.

Plus, your association needs to get an understanding of how to handle this.

Iow one official's opinion will always take precedence over his partner(s), no matter what. No discussion at all about a double tip, etc? And you think that's rational?

You must have a pile of very insecure officials in your association; people not very confident in their own ability.

Good luck with that. It's tied with the stoopidest local mechanic that I've ever read about. Not only that, that procedure also directly contradicts NFHS rule 2-6.

You're always a team out there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I disagree. We pregame it, but if you come in on me, we ARE changing the call. We're not going to debate it, we aren't going to ask "did you see the whole play" or some other nonsense, we are simply changing the call. Now, whoever made the original call is the one who is going to change it by blowing their whistle, pointing a different direction, and verbally indicating the color jersey who now gets the ball. DO NOT come in with the change -- the calling official will make the change. And he WILL make the change. After that, like it or not, he deals with the coaches but the other official should assist in that if possible.

There's no rational alternative. What's the point of going in if not to get the call correct? You know from pregame that you aren't (or I'm not) coming in unless we are 110% sure we are correct. This "give him information" stuff doesn't work. What information? "The ball went off red; its white's ball." Anything short of that, we aren't coming in because we are going to trust that our partner got it right -- that he might have seen something we didn't. Its unreasonable for you to come to me with 110% correct information and for me to tell you "I got this" or to MYOB.

This is easier than a lot of people make it out to be, but you MUST pregame this. Plus, you association needs to get an understanding of how to handle this.

There are times an official is 110% sure he's correct and I'm 110% sure he's wrong.

Earlier this season, I had a double tip near the sideline and I made the call. Partner comes over with a "tweet, tweet" and asks me if I saw the tip. I said, "yes, did you see the second tip after?" -- he didn't and that was the end of the discussion. We stayed with my call.

When two people see the same play, who's to say who saw the right version of it? Now, there are plays where a partner on an endline makes a call and as soon as I come in he knows he kicked it and changes his call. One time this season, 3-person, I came in to a partner and didn't even get a word out of my mouth before he changed his call.