IMO, they were wrong and shouldn't come back.

[M&M Guy]

A few questions:

Was anyone there from the state office to observe? Do you know for sure the officials were told to enforce the rule on pre-game dunking, for this particular game? Do you know for sure they were told at halftime or after the game that they did not enforce a rule that the state wants enforced? How do you know these officials will actually be be back, or that they did not receive a poor rating for that game? In our state, officials will only work the state finals for a maximum of 3 years, so is there a chance these officials will not be back anyway? In TX, do the coaches have a say in who works the tournament? If so, perhaps these officials are doing what they need to do to work the tournament, and that includes giving the players a warning before starting the game with a T.

Without more information, it's hard to respond directly to your statement of whether they should be back. Do I think all rules should be enforced as written? Yep. However, I also know individual areas and states provide their own interpretations as to what's "right" for that area. In IL, for example, there were plenty of teams that participated in the state tournament with illegal uniforms, without penalty, because the state provided waivers to those teams, on the basis they felt it was not fair to penalize the players for an administrative issue.

[CLH]

Was anyone there from the state office to observe?
-Yep, everyone of em
Do you know for sure the officials were told to enforce the rule on pre-game dunking, for this particular game?
-It's a rule...enforce it.
Do you know for sure they were told at halftime or after the game that they did not enforce a rule that the state wants enforced?
-Nope
How do you know these officials will actually be be back, or that they did not receive a poor rating for that game?
-It's a secret.
In our state, officials will only work the state finals for a maximum of 3 years, so is there a chance these officials will not be back anyway?
-Nope, with the new selection process they can work ever year until they die.
In TX, do the coaches have a say in who works the tournament?
-Nope
If so, perhaps these officials are doing what they need to do to work the tournament, and that includes giving the players a warning before starting the game with a T.
-You could be right, but the rulebook provides nothing for a warning for this infraction.

Not being a smarta$$, just answering so please don't misunderstand my tone. cool?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by CLH

Not being a smarta$$, just answering so please don't misunderstand my tone. cool?

Well, I'm not being a smarta$$ either (this time... ), but the point of my questions was there seems to be some judgement being passed without knowing all the facts involved, that's all. If the tournament director and others were there, then one of two things most likely happened - the officials were downgraded for not enforcing the rules, or they were told to handle it just as they did. If they were told to enforce it that way, then it doesn't make sense to say they don't deserve to work the tournament any more. They could've also been told by their local assignor or association to enforce it that way, and were not told to handle it any differently for that particular game. So, if they are following orders, who are we to say they're not good enough to work any more tournament games?

Yes, there are officials that don't know all the rules, or purposely ignore rules they don't agree with. But there's an excellent chance the officials working that particular game were pretty good officials, so without any additional information I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[DLH17]

[intermission]

CLH - is that image in your sig line link Sammy Hagar's autograph?

[CLH]

nah, its mine, i forgot it was on there, I was just playing with that stuff one day, forgot to take it down

[DLH17]

you're the red rocker??!!!!???

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by DLH17

you're the red rocker??!!!!???

You mean this guy?



Actually - the "red" rocker was a guy named Lennon (rhymes with Lenin). That's a 60s reference.

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

A few questions:

Was anyone there from the state office to observe? Do you know for sure the officials were told to enforce the rule on pre-game dunking, for this particular game? Do you know for sure they were told at halftime or after the game that they did not enforce a rule that the state wants enforced? How do you know these officials will actually be be back, or that they did not receive a poor rating for that game? In our state, officials will only work the state finals for a maximum of 3 years, so is there a chance these officials will not be back anyway? In TX, do the coaches have a say in who works the tournament? If so, perhaps these officials are doing what they need to do to work the tournament, and that includes giving the players a warning before starting the game with a T.

Without more information, it's hard to respond directly to your statement of whether they should be back. Do I think all rules should be enforced as written? Yep. However, I also know individual areas and states provide their own interpretations as to what's "right" for that area. In IL, for example, there were plenty of teams that participated in the state tournament with illegal uniforms, without penalty, because the state provided waivers to those teams, on the basis they felt it was not fair to penalize the players for an administrative issue.

Even though CLH answered your questions I do have a few comments.

While I have no doubt that the officials are told to avoid technicals, the calling of technicals at the state tournament...including the finals...does occur. I have seen them called on both players and a coach.

Given that the UIL Director of Officials has "lectured" officials and chapters during the year for "creatively interpreting and enforcing the rules" I would be surprised the crews were told to blatantly ignore a rule. I do know for a fact that they did not give a handout to the spectators stating which rules they would not be enforcing during those three days of competition

As far as people from the state office being at the games...good lord yes they were there. You constantly saw the Tournament Director and UIL Executive Director (by the way, that man needs to learn how to be short winded...those half time presentation felt like they went on forever). I do not know the Director of Officials well enough to know him on sight from the stands. However, since the officials who worked the semi-finals were evaluated for selection to work the finals he was probably there for all the games as well.

Lastly, no...I do not know if they were told about this situation at half time or after the game. Obviously the 15,000 people in attendance are not allowed inside their room and are not privy to their conversations.