Player of floor

[Gargil]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Some would say yes, based on the first line of the definition: "Verticality applies to a legal position." (Notice it does not say legal guarding position.) Having a spot on the floor is a legal position, as long as that player got to that spot first. Others would argue no, based on 4-45-1: "Legal guarding position must be obtained initially..." Because of those differences, there is a disagreement as to whether a player on the floor as a right to the space directly above them.

There's also the issue of whether this would be considered incidental contact. A foul is, of course, contact that hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. But, is going over an opponent considered a "normal offensive movement"? Could it also be argued getting up off the floor is a "normal defensive movement"?

That's why I'm in the same camp as JR as to whether it's a foul in the OP - it depends. It's not an automatic foul on B2 simply because they're on the floor, or trying to get up. We have to judge if there is some intent on B2 to trip or hold A2, or if, in fact, A2 did travel trying to avoid B2.

This makes sense to me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

does the player on the floor (B2) have legal guarding position?

by rule, he is entitled to that space, but if he has legal guarding position when contact is made then the only foul that can be called is a player control foul on A2.

from what you describe, I am calling a foul on B2 as he does not have LGP and his contact has caused the ball handler to lose the ball/lose his balance (iow - the defender has gained an advantage as a result of his illegal contact).

You have nicely stated the NCAA ruling on this--foul on the defender because he does not have a legal defensive position.

However, remember that there is a difference between having a legal spot on the floor by getting there first without illegally contacting an opponent and having LGP. The NFHS has stated that a player should not be charged with a foul when he has obtained a legal spot on the court even though he doesn't have LGP if an opponent runs into or trips over him.

So if you are calling a HS game, you should follow the HS ruling and not impose your own personal sentiments.