Letting it get out of control

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by stilllearning

Just wondering what everybody thinks. Probably a vent but this one gets old.

Tonight A1 falls to the floor due to tough defense. Travel. She gets frustrated and slaps B5 in the leg as she is getting up. B5 feels it and gets frustrated and turns around and shoves A1 in the back. I call a technical on both of them. While I'm reporting Coach B wants to talk to both of us. "DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT HAPPENED?" I said, no and walked away. I'm so sick and tired of getting lectured about letting a game getting out of control and seeing officials somehow get blamed for the actions of frustrated kids.

Anybody else get frustrated with this one? Do we let games get out of control? Any thoughts on the subject? I guess it's possible for the refs to let a game get out of control but I've worked and seen hundreds and have yet to see it once. Kids get frustrated and they do stupid things. That's all there is to it. I guess it's March so it's been a long year.The vent's over. Thanks. I feel better. : >)

I do think there have been and are situations that when we look back on it, we could have done this or done that better and could have ran the game better or managed it a little better.

An example for me would be during a game this season, we had Team A commit two hard (close to flagrant 1, intentional) fouls. They were real close. Right after the 2nd hard foul I started thinking to myself, "should we have reeled this in now and called that 2nd one a flagrant 1 (intentional)??" But I told myself no. Well just a little while later Team B commits a borderline foul as well and I thought it would be very unfair for me to call this hard foul a FF1 and not have called any of the last 2, in the other teams favor, a FF1. This is how my crew and I handled it... I stepped in the middle of the paint and said (Where my partners and all players could hear), "Guys I'm just letting you know, but if we have a another foul similar to the last 3 I'm calling it a flagrant foul." They squabbled a little bit and I just told them thats how it is. Needless to say I think we kept the game reeled in pretty well. We had 6 Ts and an ejection for a Flagrant Foul Penalty 2, but all stayed under control.

In your situation, if that girl took a serious "swipe" at her as you said call a foul and send a message that it won't be tolerated. I would venture to say if you called that smack to the leg, as subtle and non-advantageous as it is, then the other girl doesn't retaliate like she does and you also send a message to the girl doing the smacking that you saw it and that it is enough!

Picking up first fouls in our game is very crucial, especially in very heated games, moments and situations. By seeing the first foul and calling it we can really diffuse a lot of emotions without even having to interact or involve ourselves in the situation. One hit of the whistle and a verbal, "cut it out you two!" or yelling to your partners where everyone can hear, "Jim, John... Watch 22 and 32!" can do a whole lot of a good.

I don't blaming you for venting... Its the end of the season for most and this time of the year is when you and most teams are really frustrated and worn down. It definitely takes a toll on you. It's a great thing that we have an off-season.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Picking up first fouls in our game is very crucial, especially in very heated games, moments and situations.

I've been taught to extend that to the first three minutes. During the first three minutes it is possible, in a way, to set the tone for how the rest of the game is to be played.

Ignore stuff that goes on those first three minutes, you may find the fish you need to reel in is struggling more than the rod and reel you have in your hand can handle.

This could be taken wrongly, but you and I are, to a certain extent, in the behavior modification business out there. Contests I've seen that got out of control later on were often on that track from what was passed on earlier in the game.

I pregamed this all year when I was R, but had one partner earlier in the season who responded, "No, I don't do it that way. I let the kids set the tone and then I adapt to that. Let's let 'em play." No wonder this fellow official has numerous games that get out of control and gets yelled at a lot. He sets himself and his crew up for what he gets later.

That said, sometimes the wild card of emotions run amok can mess things up unexpectedly and in spite of the best efforts of the officiating crew. Those are the situations which sadden and sometimes shock me. But I guess that's why we get the big bucks.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I pregamed this all year when I was R, but had one partner earlier in the season who responded, "No, I don't do it that way. I let the kids set the tone and then I adapt to that. Let's let 'em play."

I agree with your partner's response. I think that officials who go out with the mindset to call it tight from the beginning make a huge mistake. They end up putting a couple of fouls on the best players, simply because these are the starters, which may not have been necessary. The game belongs to the players, not us. Choking the life out of the action makes the contest less enjoyable for everyone. I would have told you the same thing as that partner did, if you had espoused your 3-minute philosophy in our pregame.

I guess the games that I work are out of control.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I guess the games that I work are out of control.

No, I highly doubt that. My guess is you accomplish the same things in other effective ways. I'd bet you set a good tone for the game by your appearance, professionalism in captains' conference and meeting with the coaches, confidence at the start of the game. Those are also vital, effective ways to accomplish the same thing I was hoping to suggest. And I've seen guys who fit the image I have of you do so very well.
As to the "I like to let the players set the tone", I'd love to see your skills and aptitude on display when the tone they set early on isn't a good one. It's at that point that I've seen officials unable or unwilling to adjust to keep the landslide of chaos from falling in on them. Then again, I bet the way you take care of business carries out what needs to be done to establish the control spoken of in the original post.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

No, I highly doubt that. My guess is you accomplish the same things in other effective ways. I'd bet you set a good tone for the game by your appearance, professionalism in captains' conference and meeting with the coaches, confidence at the start of the game. Those are also vital, effective ways to accomplish the same thing I was hoping to suggest. And I've seen guys who fit the image I have of you do so very well.
As to the "I like to let the players set the tone", I'd love to see your skills and aptitude on display when the tone they set early on isn't a good one. It's at that point that I've seen officials unable or unwilling to adjust to keep the landslide of chaos from falling in on them. Then again, I bet the way you take care of business carries out what needs to be done to establish the control spoken of in the original post.

This is such a complimentary response to my previous post that I am ashamed. I can only take this opportunity to apologize for my prior crankiness.
While I did disagree with your stated position, I certainly could have phrased my response in a more respectful and hopefully discussion worthy manner. I'll aim for that in the future.
In summary, after about 15 years of doing this, I come down on the side of JR, Rich, and Rut. I believe that we need to allow some contact and not whistle everything in order for the game to flow and be enjoyable for the players and spectators. The stronger players and teams can handle it. The challenge is to recognize when the players are unable to deal with the level of contact that we are accustomed to permitting and to adjust and call those games tighter. I firmly believe that by over-calling the officials can ruin a game very quickly. It takes much longer for an under-called game to get out of control, so if the officials are sharp and can come in with a few timely whistles to keep the tempers in check, then the proper balance can be achieved.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I believe that we need to allow some contact and not whistle everything in order for the game to flow and be enjoyable for the players and spectators. The stronger players and teams can handle it. The challenge is to recognize when the players are unable to deal with the level of contact that we are accustomed to permitting and to adjust and call those games tighter. I firmly believe that by over-calling the officials can ruin a game very quickly. It takes much longer for an under-called game to get out of control, so if the officials are sharp and can come in with a few timely whistles to keep the tempers in check, then the proper balance can be achieved.

Well said imo also.

Of course it helps when I agree philosophically with a statement like that too.

BTaylor did say it well..."Too much contact is not a foul. Illegal contact is a foul."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I agree with your partner's response. I think that officials who go out with the mindset to call it tight from the beginning make a huge mistake. They end up putting a couple of fouls on the best players, simply because these are the starters, which may not have been necessary. The game belongs to the players, not us. Choking the life out of the action makes the contest less enjoyable for everyone. I would have told you the same thing as that partner did, if you had espoused your 3-minute philosophy in our pregame.

I guess the games that I work are out of control.

I think my answer is "it depends."

Super big game where the hype (deserved or not) was way up -- the first 5 minutes the players were sloppy, all over the place -- I passed on some contact early cause I wanted to let the game breathe (and because the advantage/disadvantage just wasn't that obvious either way). These were (and are) two very good teams (one of them could very well win the big division state title) with very talented players (at least 4-5 on the floor will play D-I hoops). The teams settled in, we still called almost 30 fouls, but we didn't choke the life out of the first few minutes. Matter of fact, I think we had 2 fouls the entire first quarter. The teams adjusted to the hype and settled in. We allowed that to happen. For me, the hype ended after I tossed the ball, but that's my job.

Recently I did another game where the teams were not very talented and decided to come out and challenge each other physically. It would've been a brawl had we adopted the same philosophy as we did in the earlier game. We actually went bonus both ways in the first quarter and probably had 25 fouls in the first half. Came out for the third quarter and we called 2 the entire quarter -- they adjusted to us.

I go into each game prepared to guide the game however I need to. It's how quickly *we* adjust, I'm convinced, that determines whether the game "goes off the rails."