The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 12:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 244
Logic of division line throw in after technical

Ok y'all,

I understand the mechanics and the rule but what I donít understand is the logic behind the following scenario and Iím hoping someone will come up with something that helps me to understand. I'm not grumpin' here but rather, would like to be able to explain it if asked...

Elementary game, home team is down by one with 3 seconds left, throw in under homeís basket. Ball is at H1ís disposal, V1 reaches across the line and slaps the ball out of H1ís hand. The technical foul is assessed, two free throws (both missed) and the home team is awarded the ball at the division line. They inbound, try to work it around, and take a desperation shot from three feet behind the top of the key. They lose by one. They had the ball underneath before the technical and afterward had it forty feet away from the bucket, seemingly a disadvantage in elementary basketball. I understand that ALL technical fouls are put in play at the division line. The question here is why? Especially since the home team in this situation was moved farther away from the basket. Does the defense not gain an advantage by moving the offense away from the basket, considering that elementary free throw percentages are in the twenties? Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,070
I'm not sure the logic behind it, if it had been an Intentional Foul, the home team would have had the ensuing throw-in under their own basket. The other difference would have been that the player that was intentionally fouled would have shot the free throws. I do know that college rules are different in that they use POI, which I believe would have brought the ball back to frontcourt endline throw in after T shots. A lot of NCAA rules make their way down to the HS level, but, this one has not.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:11pm
certified Hot Mom tester
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: only in my own mind, such as it is
Posts: 12,918
That's a good question and there's really no simple answer. What would the alternative be? Inbound at spot of foul? There are a lot of technicals that are called because of something that happens off the court. Where would the inbound be then?

In your case, if their original throw in spot would have been on the opposite endline, then they would have gained an advantage by the procedure. I guess the rules makers had to decide on one spot for the throw in on all technicals because of their nature as to what can cause a technical (administrative mistake, etc.) and "half court" seems reasonable.

Also remember that the rules are made for use at the high school level where FT percentages are usually higher than 20% and kids rec leagues choose to use those rules. Those leagues can modify the rules appropriate to grade level if they choose. Perhaps you should bring this up at the next meeting. You do volunteer to help out this organization, don't you?
__________________
Yom HaShoah
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:11pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
My thoughts are that the rules weren't written with elementary students in mind. The high school rules for Technical fouls were written very simply; they all have the same penalty. With a lot of technical fouls, there's no real "spot" of the foul, so the division line gets the throw-ins. Personally, I would appeal to the folks who run this league with your scenario; they have the authority to alter whatever rules they feel are appropriate given the age and skill level of the players.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:18pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
.....they have the authority to alter whatever rules they feel are appropriate given the age and skill level of the players.
Yep, like not calling this technical in the first place.

"Hey, kid. Don't reach over this line." Play on.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 02:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post

Also remember that the rules are made for use at the high school level where FT percentages are usually higher than 20% and kids rec leagues choose to use those rules. Those leagues can modify the rules appropriate to grade level if they choose. Perhaps you should bring this up at the next meeting. You do volunteer to help out this organization, don't you?
I am working in a different league (middle schoolers, with the intention of climbing up to high school next year. Holy smokes I've got a lot to learn!) but will bring it up to those involved. I have volunteered in the past, so maybe I do have some cache... In the interests of disclosure, this was my son's school team and I was watching from the stands. Kept my mouth shut, btw.

Thanks to everyone who has shared their insights. I am new to the forum and have learned soooo much by reading the other threads. I'm hooked. Much obliged. Viva Officiating.com!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 03:22pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Yep, like not calling this technical in the first place.

"Hey, kid. Don't reach over this line." Play on.
Not sure I like that option. They need to learn they can't do that. OTOH, it's decidedly advantageous in this situation due to the FT percentages.

To The Rooster, I would recommend if the FT percentages are that low, there are other options for TFs.

1. Just give two points to the other team, plus the ball at the division line. This eliminates the advantage.
2. Move FTs in closer.
3. Give the shooting team the choice of OOB spot; Division line or where the ball was located when the TF was called.

At this level, I would prefer option 1.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 03:29pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Not sure I like that option. They need to learn they can't do that.
They need to learn it, but you reach a point at the lower ages where you have all the rules that the market will bear.

We have no 5 second closely guarded count.

We have no free throw violations on any player except the shooter.

We have no violation if the thrower steps in with one foot on a throw-in.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FIBA - division line throw-in violation JugglingReferee Basketball 17 Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:09am
Division line phansen Basketball 4 Sat Jan 17, 2009 01:05pm
Sitting Over Division Line cmcramer Basketball 5 Sat Dec 22, 2007 06:44pm
Sitch: FC throw-in near division line. mick Basketball 1 Wed Dec 05, 2007 06:58pm
Straddling the division line. mick Basketball 21 Wed Feb 09, 2005 09:56pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1