how to deal with new, but arrogant, official?

[representing]

I was assigned to officiate 4 biddy games with a referee who is new to basketball but not new to officiating (did volleyball for 5 or 6 years). After the first game I asked if I could give him some constructive criticism and he said yes.

I asked if he knows the PCA for each officials and he said yes. Then I asked why he called a travel in my area, right in front of the coaches when it was definitely not a travel. He then went on a semi-rampage about how he coached biddy basketball for the wreck league in the next town over, and he didn't like how his kid was getting fouled all the time and the refs wouldn't call it because one might not have seen it in his area and the other wasn't looking there. Then he said that if he sees it he's calling it. I told him "well, you still need to look ONLY in your area and I will take care of the fouls if it is in my area" and he still went on about his kid getting fouled and all that jazz.

I then told him "ok, but I'm telling you this and take it for what it's worth. Coaches will know which official is supposed to call which fouls, and if you're calling something way out of your area, they'll go ape**** even if you're correct. You shouldn't be looking there, and don't call something if it's right in front of the other official who has the better view and is closer to the play". I left it at that.

How would you deal with someone who just started and won't look in his/her own area after repeatedly being told so? I know he's been told by other officials, because my one buddy ref'ed with him during biddy games and he's the type to tell you what you're doing wrong and will get pissed if you're looking in his area and calling a violation or foul, especially if there wasn't one.

[Adam]

Let it go. I won't ask someone if they want some "constructive criticism." If they don't ask you for some advice, don't offer it.

Once you offered and he agreed, you maybe could have simply asked him what he saw on that play.

Once he starts defending himself, however, drop it and move on.

[budjones05]

My advice....don't! If they don't want to learn then that's their lost. If he calls in my PCA it better be something BIG!

[TravelinMan]

fromm what you have told us, I would say this person is beyond hope and you are just wasting your breath talking with him. I would suggest you request not to work with this official.

[Mark Padgett]

Put him on a plane and send him to me. I'll work just one game with him. By the time he goes back home, you won't have a problem with him anymore.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let it go. I won't ask someone if they want some "constructive criticism." If they don't ask you for some advice, don't offer it.

Once you offered and he agreed, you maybe could have simply asked him what he saw on that play.

Once he starts defending himself, however, drop it and move on.

I wanted to somehow say "hey, don't look in my area" without being rude about it, which is why I asked for constructive criticisms. I do this with a lot of new officials and tell them "take it or leave it".

When he started defending himself, I did try to drop it but he just kept going on his semi-rampage and I've tried to change the topic many times but he just wouldn't shut up. He was starting to piss me off as I obviously had.

Thanks Snaqs

[representing]

Originally Posted by TravelinMan

fromm what you have told us, I would say this person is beyond hope and you are just wasting your breath talking with him. I would suggest you request not to work with this official.

I agree he's beyond hope. I will be doing just that next year.

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Put him on a plane and send him to me. I'll work just one game with him. By the time he goes back home, you won't have a problem with him anymore.

You pay the plane tickets or me? 50/50 maybe? I send him, you return him?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by representing

You pay the plane tickets or me? 50/50 maybe? I send him, you return him?

Sure. Just send me your debit card number and PIN.

[JRutledge]

Mistake number one is the way you addressed the issue IMO. You first asked if he wanted you to give him advice, unless you are in a position to give that kind of advice (President of and organization, clinician, trainer, assignor or evaluator).

Secondly you should not say to anyone "Why did you call.......?" You should ask them, "What did you see?" Then allow them to tell you what they saw, and then give your critique if you find the answer not satisfying. And just because he has been told before or not does not mean that person respects you or wants your advice. Now they might say "yes" to your question because they are being nice, but then you have to on some level accept they may not like what you have to say.

I would not call that arrogant because an official does not agree with you. I have seen officials just disagree on what they should be called and why and that does not mean someone was arrogant. It might mean they simply disagree. Now the answer you told us might not be valid, but that is not your concern. It was one call, there are many times when calls might be made in your area, it is just a matter of how often and situation that might make that proper or justified. And just because someone officiates in another sport does not mean there is an understanding of protocol in another sport they are newer at. Yes officials have a leg up when they have done it before in some other capacity, but the expectations do not always apply the same. If volleyball officials in your area are like the ones around me, they work alone a lot and do not have to deal with other partners for many of their games.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Sure. Just send me your debit card number and PIN.

Ok, what's your email address?

DISCLAIMER: I'm not responsible for any porn spam emails you get in the near future if you send me your email address.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by representing

I wanted to somehow say "hey, don't look in my area" without being rude about it, which is why I asked for constructive criticisms. I do this with a lot of new officials and tell them "take it or leave it".

When he started defending himself, I did try to drop it but he just kept going on his semi-rampage and I've tried to change the topic many times but he just wouldn't shut up. He was starting to piss me off as I obviously had.

Thanks Snaqs

The best approach is, as Rut also suggests, to simply ask him what he saw on that play. After he tells you, you can explain why you passed on it (no control, dribbling, etc.).

With a first year BB official, I'd be very hesitant to tell him anything about PCAs in this context. Sometimes it's hard enough to get them to blow the whistle at all, and if you get them thinking too much it's all over.

You're better off trying to find a positive reason to get them to look off ball rather than a reason not to watch the ball. He took your advice as "hey, stay out of my area!"

That goes triple for a "biddy" game. You're better off actually discussing the traveling play than worrying about long distance rates.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're better off trying to find a positive reason to get them to look off ball rather than a reason not to watch the ball. He took your advice as "hey, stay out of my area!"

That goes triple for a "biddy" game. You're better off actually discussing the traveling play than worrying about long distance rates.

I agree. And to me that sounds more arrogant than a younger official that does not know any better. If you are going to go down that road, you should discuss the play and not focus so much on the PCA as that is a concept that takes some time to learn for many officials. But if you say that you had a different look and you saw the play differently, any smart official might realize they have more to learn and might be more receptive to some level of criticism.

Peace

[representing]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

That goes triple for a "biddy" game. You're better off actually discussing the traveling play than worrying about long distance rates.

I wasn't talking telephone with him!

Nah, seriously though, I do appreciate the tips you and Rut have given to me. It was my first time dealing with a new official who acted this way. I'll keep that in mind for the next new official I end up working with next year. Thanks again!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by representing

.....even if you're correct. You shouldn't be looking there, and don't call something if it's right in front of the other official who has the better view and is closer to the play".

Apparently it is difficult for many to drop the ball watching habit. For some, even if they really want to, they just can't help it.

"I know, I know, I shouldn't have called it from there, but it just looked so obvious........" etc. etc.

Your guy apparently has no intention of dropping the habit, so GIGDGO.

[cmhjordan23]

Correct me if I'm wrong. Not saying it was a travel, but in Rule 2.4.1 in officials maunual it says typically an official should call violations in his/her PCA, but any violation observed should be called. The newbie probably was wrong but violation doesn't necessarily have to be in PCA.