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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 07:58am
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
I was assigned to officiate 4 biddy games with a referee who is new to basketball but not new to officiating (did volleyball for 5 or 6 years). After the first game I asked if I could give him some constructive criticism and he said yes.

I asked if he knows the PCA for each officials and he said yes. Then I asked why he called a travel in my area, right in front of the coaches when it was definitely not a travel. He then went on a semi-rampage about how he coached biddy basketball for the wreck league in the next town over, and he didn't like how his kid was getting fouled all the time and the refs wouldn't call it because one might not have seen it in his area and the other wasn't looking there. Then he said that if he sees it he's calling it. I told him "well, you still need to look ONLY in your area and I will take care of the fouls if it is in my area" and he still went on about his kid getting fouled and all that jazz.

I then told him "ok, but I'm telling you this and take it for what it's worth. Coaches will know which official is supposed to call which fouls, and if you're calling something way out of your area, they'll go ape**** even if you're correct. You shouldn't be looking there, and don't call something if it's right in front of the other official who has the better view and is closer to the play". I left it at that.

How would you deal with someone who just started and won't look in his/her own area after repeatedly being told so? I know he's been told by other officials, because my one buddy ref'ed with him during biddy games and he's the type to tell you what you're doing wrong and will get pissed if you're looking in his area and calling a violation or foul, especially if there wasn't one.
Rep,
At the risk of beating Mr. Ed (BillyMac and others will get the reference), here are a few thoughts -- some from the same angle, some from a different angle.

Your partner gave you TWO pieces of information:
1. He has several years experience as a volleyball official AND
2. He had been a COACH for several years in a recreational league.

Officials at the recreational area vary WIDELY from community to community. In Central Ohio, the Catholic Youth League (most would know it as CYO, but we are not a member of CYO) uses ONLY licensed OHSAA/NFHS officials. At the 4th - 6th grade levels, there are some newer (1st/2nd year officials), but many are varsity officials. The 7th/8th grade levels feature nearly all varsity high school officials. Some communities also only use OHSAA/NFHS officials at the 4th - 8th grade levels -- though most of these leagues use newer officials. While some of these new officials may have done other sports, most have not. New officials typically do not blow their whistle very often. Therefore, the experienced officials are left with three options: let his partner on his own (resulting in many an elephant and other large animals being missed in one part of the court while even very small game is captured in other parts), call in the junior partner's area to make the game consistent in all areas or use a hybrid approach of allowing the newbie a chance to make calls, but stepping in to call the elephants as necessary.

Other communities, including my community (which happens to be one of the higher income areas therefore, money is NOT the reason) use non-licensed high school officials. Each of my boys only played one year in this league.
In these leagues, I assure you there is NO PRIMARY COVERAGE AREA!!! Typically, one of the officials is a "senior" official -- meaning that he was a HS junior or senior who had worked the league for at least one year previously. The other is a first year official. In these leagues, coaches typically LOVE to have a call made in any case.

For coaches who have only coached at these levels, there can be a tremendous frustration level. Further, at the 4th/5th and 6th grade recreational level, it is POSSIBLE for a single official to make nearly ALL FOUL CALLS!!!

For the record, I would disagree with your assertion that many recreational coaches have a clue as to what primary areas are in basketball. Their view is "whoever is closest should call it." For example, when the ball is near the lead's sideline and a foot above the free throw line, the lead is typically only about 20' from the play while the trail may be about 25 - 30 feet or more from the ball. Further, the lead has to keep one eye on the play to make sure that the ball does not go out of bounds. BUT, the trail official has primary coverage on this play. VERY FEW coaches know this fact -- especially recreational coaches. Another example, when a drive is coming from the wing on the trail's side (two person), as long as the ballhandler stays outside the lane on the drive -- even if the drive is a baseline (oops, sorry, endline) drive -- this is the trail's primary. Once again, the lead could be much closer to this play, BUT it is still in the trail's primary. Most coaches just want us to get the call right, they could not care less who the primary calling official should be.

I have watched many JV officiating crews -- even THREE MAN crews -- have ALL officials watching the ball. This is actually a very hard habit to break -- especially for those who have not coached at a higher level than recreational ball. Folks who have PLAYED can be even worse. Most spectators at a game ONLY look at the ball. Therefore, ball watching is very common and a very hard habit to break. Therefore, it is very common for new officials to ball watch.

Now, fast forward to your game. Your partner made ONE call in front of you. Big deal. In many of your previous posts you have tended to overreact in some situations. You can also learn here. If a partner makes a call in your area once in while, no big deal. Move on.

Nevadaref pointed out an excellent example why off ball coverage is important. At the same time, your volleyball/basketball partner could likely do these recreational games for 10 years and NEVER have a bad problem (punch thrown, etc.) off ball. Off ball coverage becomes MUCH more important as you move to more competitive leagues -- travel leagues, competitive junior high, freshman, junior varsity and varsity high school.

As Rich poined out, in 3-person, it is VERY COMMON for a non-PCA official to make a travel call. This is especially true when the ball is on/near the block or in the lane. The lead is frequently focused on the upper body action. Therefore, frequently the trail gets a better view of the footwork.

Bottom line: Lots of reasons for a single call being made in your area. Don't worry about it. Move on....and don't take it personally.....
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 08:19am
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CMH - sounds like you hang around in my two Rec Leagues! Much of what you say is very accurate for my situation too.

As has been said before - in Rec Leagues you get what you pay for in the way of coaches and officials.

I do the best I can, sometimes under difficult circumstances, and most appreciate it.

Well written.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 11:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef View Post
Rep,
it is VERY COMMON for a non-PCA official to make a travel call. This is especially true when the ball is on/near the block or in the lane. The lead is frequently focused on the upper body action. Therefore, frequently the trail gets a better view of the footwork.
I'd hope it is common - this is how it should be done; travel calls in the post come from the trail in 3 man :-)

Last edited by bradfordwilkins; Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:23am.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 12:22pm
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Bottom line is, if you offer unsolicted advice, (not recommended) you might want to have more than two varsity games under your belt before you proceed.

It makes you look like the arrogant one in this case.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:36pm
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Originally Posted by asdf View Post
Bottom line is, if you offer unsolicted advice, (not recommended) you might want to have more than two varsity games under your belt before you proceed.

It makes you look like the arrogant one in this case.
Someone had to say it... lol
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 23, 2010, 01:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
Bottom line is, if you offer unsolicted advice, (not recommended) you might want to have more than two varsity games under your belt before you proceed.

It makes you look like the arrogant one in this case.
I have been working basketball for over 10 years and varsity for over 10 years. I am a president of one of my organizations in basketball. I am a registered clinician in my state as well and run a clinic for state during the summer run by the IHSA Official's Department. I do not under any circumstances give advice to officials I do not know or that do not ask for advice.

The only place I will give unsolicited advice is here.

Peace
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