Intentional?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by cmhcoachnref

ronny,
as jr pointed out, you have the exact wording in this case play:
4.19.3 situation b: A1 drives to the basket with b1 in pursuit. As a1 begins
the act of shooting, b1 gets a hand on the ball from behind and the subsequent contact takes a1 forcefully to the floor and out of bounds. Ruling: an intentional foul shall be charged when the contact is judged to be excessive, even though the opponent is playing the ball. (4-11)

in your two cases, if, in your opinion, the players committed a foul and you viewed the contact to be excessive, you can charge an intentional foul. You can replace "even though the opponent is playing the ball" with "even though the opponent (offender) is dribbling the ball" or "even though the opponent (offender) is trying to set a screen." the key operative phrase here is "judged to be excessive" even if the play did not otherwise rise to the level of being considered to be intentional.

+1