Help me work through a block/charge scenario.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by CoachCER

I think that is what he is pushing for here.

Talking in hypotheticals, what kind of action with the shoulder would you need to see to come up with an intentional/flagrant on A1?
What if he saw the defender stepping and lowered his shoulder just before contact?
I don't think that happened here, as this player dips his shoulder a lot on drives to the basket, even when not in traffic.

My assistant director was sitting with me, and his take was A1 dips to absorb contact. I personally think he does it out of instinct for no particular reason.

I will say in almost 20 years of officiating and longer watching/playing I don't recall ever seeing a shoulder like the one you describe that resulted in an intentional/flagrant foul if that tells you anything. It would have to be a scenario where I judged that the shoulder was not part of his move to the basket, but that he went out of his way to seek out the defender and deliver the shoulder to him intentionally - and I mean REALLY went out of his way. More than likely there would also be something leading up to this play that would tip me off that A1 was looking for trouble if I judged it to be intentional/flagrant.

Bob, would you really have a double foul in this scenario where you judge that A1 initiated contact deemed intentional/flagrant? I could see your second example about A1 punching B1 after B1 contacted him illegally, but in this case if the first contact is A1 initiating intentional contact on B2, do you have a foul on B2 also?