Fight!!!!!!!

[asdf]

The crew certainly improperly administered the penalites here. In addition to assessing the technicals improperly, #20 from Hoover comes off the bench and throws at least two punches at the kid who was originally punched.

That being said, anyone who blames this fight on the crew for not calling a common foul prior to the fight, is an idiot.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We should talk about this more.

I gotta say, my first reaction was nothing at all on the player in white. After taking a punch to the face, his reaction was pretty mild and I could see myself not penalizing this at all. Am I the only one who is (sorta) willing to go there?

I would REALLY like to agree with this given that the kid got punched in the face, but in this situation with everything else that is going on, my inclination would be to penalize it all. At the end of the day the "T" on this kid for the shove back is not going to even register on the list of things that occurred. Unfortunately I don't believe we are given the leeway to allow for any degree of physical retaliation no matter how mild....now with that said I would have no problem (and would privately cheer you) for not penalizing him.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

We should talk about this more.

I gotta say, my first reaction was nothing at all on the player in white. After taking a punch to the face, his reaction was pretty mild and I could see myself not penalizing this at all. Am I the only one who is (sorta) willing to go there?

Nope. I'm saying that imo the most you could call is a regular "T" on the kid. And that's a htbt/judgment call that I wouldn't question. I also wouldn't question anyone that wouldn't call anything on the player in white. You sureasheck are allowed to defend yourself...and he didn't swing at the opponent while doing so. He just pushed the kid away.

So I gotta say that I personally agree with you as to it being a no-call.

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone could call what he did "fighting" though.

Again, jmo......

[Rich]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

I would REALLY like to agree with this given that the kid got punched in the face, but in this situation with everything else that is going on, my inclination would be to penalize it all. At the end of the day the "T" on this kid for the shove back is not going to even register on the list of things that occurred. Unfortunately I don't believe we are given the leeway to allow for any degree of physical retaliation no matter how mild....now with that said I would have no problem (and would privately cheer you) for not penalizing him.

The reality is that without the benefit of monitors it's unlikely the officials are getting it all. What they *did* do, however, shows they haven't studied the rules lately (if at all).

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The reality is that without the benefit of monitors it's unlikely the officials are getting it all. What they *did* do, however, shows they haven't studied the rules lately (if at all).

Agree completely, there is no excuse for the way they administered. I was just saying that everything I saw would be penalized. To be honest after watching it again I could see not penalizing the kid for pushing back, it was more of a "get away and stop punching me shove" than it was retaliation. And after he did that he even sort of ducked behind a couple other players so the kid wouldn't come after him..

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

And after he did that he even sort of ducked behind a couple other players so the kid wouldn't come after him..

Smart move. That wasn't going to end well for him otherwise.

[Adam]

If I can justify not punishing a kid who got punched first, I'm not going to. The two fights I've actually officiated, I didn't have that option, though.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nope. I'm saying that imo the most you could call is a regular "T" on the kid. And that's a htbt/judgment call that I wouldn't question. I also wouldn't question anyone that wouldn't call anything on the player in white. You sureasheck are allowed to defend yourself...and he didn't swing at the opponent while doing so. He just pushed the kid away.

So I gotta say that I personally agree with you as to it being a no-call.

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone could call what he did "fighting" though.

Again, jmo......

I agree. And you'd have rules backing to pass on calling a foul on white: dead ball contact deemed not intentional (i.e. excessive) or flagrant.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If I can justify not punishing a kid who got punched first, I'm not going to. The two fights I've actually officiated, I didn't have that option, though.

Had one kid punch another in a grade school game probably almost 20 years ago, other than that nary a punch/fight in 17 yrs of high school games...lucky I guess. Watch this Friday

[LSams]

Another thought, not to derail but. . .

Watch the calling official on the original foul (never mind if it's flagrant, intentional, team control, or charge as he signaled). After he calls the foul, he is immediately moving to the table...if he holds his position for one more second, he is in position to get between those players and potentially defuse the situation before it gets out of hand.

Just a reminder to not always be in such a hurry.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by LSams

Another thought, not to derail but. . .

Watch the calling official on the original foul (never mind if it's flagrant, intentional, team control, or charge as he signaled). After he calls the foul, he is immediately moving to the table...if he holds his position for one more second, he is in position to get between those players and potentially defuse the situation before it gets out of hand.

Just a reminder to not always be in such a hurry.

Good point - especially when you have a non-basketball play (the two-handed push to the back of the head) to start the action. Always a good idea to make sure the situation is under control before leaving.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by LSams

Another thought, not to derail but. . .

Watch the calling official on the original foul (never mind if it's flagrant, intentional, team control, or charge as he signaled). After he calls the foul, he is immediately moving to the table...if he holds his position for one more second, he is in position to get between those players and potentially defuse the situation before it gets out of hand.

Just a reminder to not always be in such a hurry.

And the type of foul requires the officials to step in and be vigilant. I mean, it's at least intentional, probably flagrant. It doesn't appear to be called that way -- I mean, the official gives a player-control signal.

Why would the official ever be in a rush to get away from something like that?

[Judtech]

I am glad someone else noted that #20 black came out of nowhere and threw some punches, and then kept following the W player.
Other than one was a live ball foul and one was a dead ball foul (granted AFTER a punch) what was different about the foul #23 and #10 committed? Both were two handed pushes. I would go flagrant on the live ball push and vanilla "T" on the dead ball push. And looking at the physical stature of #10 I would THINK about tossing him, FOR HIS OWN SAFETY!!! He DID prove he could take a punch, but regardless!
Having not been there, the calling official may have been getting information from the trail official in regards to "Upgrading" the foul. He may have only seen the W player lunge forward and B arms extended. The Trail may have seen that the push was flagrant. They may have been getting together to exchange information
Finally, isn't there a little blurb about a player "popping" his jersey? THAT should have been a "T" as well.

[TrojanHorse]

Originally Posted by asdf

The crew certainly improperly administered the penalites here. In addition to assessing the technicals improperly, #20 from Hoover comes off the bench and throws at least two punches at the kid who was originally punched.

That being said, anyone who blames this fight on the crew for not calling a common foul prior to the fight, is an idiot.

#20 Airballs on his two swings, he doesnt come close to making any contact. But he should be gone.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Judtech

And looking at the physical stature of #10 I would THINK about tossing him, FOR HIS OWN SAFETY!!!

Please tell me that you were kidding when you wrote that.

If not, that statement ties for the dumbest ever made on this forum.