Fight!!!!!!!

[derwil]

Area 6A 1st round - Birmingham, Alabama

Hoover (black) and Spain Park (white) are in town rivals:

YouTube - Spain Park vs. Hoover Basketball Fight

Sooooooo watcha got???

After the fiasco, the referees dumped the big kid for Hoover, 6 Hoover players off the bench, assesed the HC 6 indirect for the players leaving the bench and tossed him too. Hoover ended up with 5 players the rest of the game. The referees also let Spain park shoot 16.....yes 16 free throws - 2 for the original foul 2 for the flagrant on the big fella and 12 for the players on the court.

Now don't shoot the messenger.....that's what the crew did.

And YES I know the first foul isn't a charge...should have been team control or intentional.

Anyhow...just thought I'd share this wonderful moment in area basketball with the world.

[Berkut]

I am not a psychologist, but I did stay in a Motel 6 last night.

I think #23 might have some anger management issues.

[Welpe]

From the comfort of my couch, I probably would've had an intentional on the original foul. Did the officials deem that the players that came off the bench participated in the fight?

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by Berkut

I am not a psychologist, but I did stay in a Motel 6 last night.

I think #23 might have some anger management issues.

Ya think?!?

[Juulie Downs]

I think the first one has got to be flagrant. It was way, way past anything related to basketball.

As far as all the aftermath, you do the best you can to keep track of who's where, and try to remember the rules.

I also think that W kid chest-bumping the spectator, and doing some inciting before that was flagrant. And that crowd cheering for whatever was also way scary. I'd rather see them hurling invective and screaming angrily than cheering for their opponents being bad. That really bugs me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Juulie Downs

I think the first one has got to be flagrant. It was way, way past anything related to basketball.

As far as all the aftermath, you do the best you can to keep track of who's where, and try to remember the rules.

I also think that W kid chest-bumping the spectator, and doing some inciting before that was flagrant. And that crowd cheering for whatever was also way scary. I'd rather see them hurling invective and screaming angrily than cheering for their opponents being bad. That really bugs me.

Flagrant for the kid in white pumping up and celebrating with his crowd? Wow.

I posted the time remaining and the score already in this thread. I believe that the crowd was cheering because they were about to win, despite all the mess from the flare up.

Frankly, I was amazed how calm all of the people standing along the end line were during the altercation.

[representing]

First off, I would've called that an intentional foul, maybe flagrant depending on the HTBT situation.

Second, I would like to commend the official who decided to step back and let game management and security take over. He also probably stepped back to start taking a visual image of all the players who came from the bench. Some of the guys were easy to spot, as they had their warmup shirt on over their jersey.

I would hope something like this does not happen in one of my games, unfortunately it did happen in a JVB's game last week which I heard about and the officials didn't really do the technicals and all properly (from what i heard, I was not there).

This is a question I ask several different officials, including those that have seen fights break out. How do you know who are the floor players and who are the bench players if something like this were to happen, especially if some bench players are in their jerseys and not in their warmups? Do you go to the book? Even they might not know who are the current players as they just check off who's been in the quarter so far.

Perhaps NFHS might make it mandatory for bench players to wear their warmups or something to distinguish them from floor players? This would be like Pro soccer, where the subs must wear something over their jerseys. But that's because they can run up and down the sideline to warm up before going in, and it could get confusing for players as to who is on the field and who is not.

ADDED: One last thing. I'd like to commend the white team for not having a single player come from the bench. I took a closer look at the end of the video and it looks like the original 5 players were the only on the court, no one from the white team (except maybe for coaches to come in and help break the fight) .

[bas2456]

I felt bad for the kid who got punched. Can't tell if he said something or not, but he tried to retaliate and got nowhere

[tjones1]

I've got an intentional on the first foul on 23.

I've watched it a couple times... I'm not even going to get in on the free throws because I can't tell how many came off, who did what, etc.

But I do know that:
For white: 10, 42, 24, 5, 32 (?) are players
For black: 23, 14, 20, 12, 21 (?) are players

White 10, Black 23, Black 15, Black 22 are all ejected.

White ? would have been whacked too for going over and doing that little chest bump with one of the crowd members.

[representing]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I've got an intentional on the first foul on 23.

I've watched it a couple times... I'm not even going to get in on the free throws because I can't tell how many came off, who did what, etc.

But I do know that:
For white: 10, 42, 24, 5, 32 (?) are players
For black: 23, 14, 20, 12, 21 (?) are players

White 10, Black 23, Black 15, Black 22 are all ejected.

White ? would have been whacked too for going over and doing that little chest bump with the crowd.

Yeah, you can do that watching a video, but how would you know as an official on the floor who the 10 players are when a fight break out? NFHS doesn't allow you to use video to review it.

Not trying to be cocky, I just want to know what you would do in this case. The bookkeepers might not know if there's been a lot of subbing done in that quarter.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Yeah, you can do that watching a video, but how would you know as an official on the floor who the 10 players are when a fight break out? NFHS doesn't allow you to use video to review it.

Not trying to be cocky, I just want to know what you would do in this case. The bookkeepers might not know if there's been a lot of subbing done in that quarter.

It's tough and you may not know. You might know a few of the players who were in, but likely not all five. Some scorers keep a running list of who is in the game at any point, but most do not. At the NCAA level this record is available, if there is electronic score-keeping.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's tough and you may not know. You might know a few of the players who were in, but likely not all five. Some scorers keep a running list of who is in the game at any point, but most do not. At the NCAA level this record is available, if there is electronic score-keeping.

So its highly possible that if the player on the floor is not in a warmup and despite their being more than 5 from one team on the floor that you can't eject them unless they are actually fighting?

[Spence]

Fully realizing the video can't show it all I didn't see bench players for black fighting so the coach probably shouldn't have been dumped. If true then the FTs were not handled properly either.

Would anyone disagree that the original foul was flagrant?

[icallfouls]

If the T official had called the first foul on #24 white for the foul from behind....maybe #23 doesn't do anything....not likely.... but they should have gotten the first one

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I've got an intentional on the first foul on 23.

I've watched it a couple times... I'm not even going to get in on the free throws because I can't tell how many came off, who did what, etc.

But I do know that:
For white: 10, 42, 24, 5, 32 (?) are players
For black: 23, 14, 20, 12, 21 (?) are players

White 10, Black 23, Black 15, Black 22 are all ejected.

White ? would have been whacked too for going over and doing that little chest bump with one of the crowd members.

I don't agree that W10 deserves a flagrant. A T, yes, but after taking a smack to the face, he merely pushed the offender. A DQ for him is not in proportion to the action.

I can agree with a T for the crowd interaction (taunting) by the player from White.