Fight!!!!!!!

[tjones1]

I've got an intentional on the first foul on 23.

I've watched it a couple times... I'm not even going to get in on the free throws because I can't tell how many came off, who did what, etc.

But I do know that:
For white: 10, 42, 24, 5, 32 (?) are players
For black: 23, 14, 20, 12, 21 (?) are players

White 10, Black 23, Black 15, Black 22 are all ejected.

White ? would have been whacked too for going over and doing that little chest bump with one of the crowd members.

[representing]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I've got an intentional on the first foul on 23.

I've watched it a couple times... I'm not even going to get in on the free throws because I can't tell how many came off, who did what, etc.

But I do know that:
For white: 10, 42, 24, 5, 32 (?) are players
For black: 23, 14, 20, 12, 21 (?) are players

White 10, Black 23, Black 15, Black 22 are all ejected.

White ? would have been whacked too for going over and doing that little chest bump with the crowd.

Yeah, you can do that watching a video, but how would you know as an official on the floor who the 10 players are when a fight break out? NFHS doesn't allow you to use video to review it.

Not trying to be cocky, I just want to know what you would do in this case. The bookkeepers might not know if there's been a lot of subbing done in that quarter.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Yeah, you can do that watching a video, but how would you know as an official on the floor who the 10 players are when a fight break out? NFHS doesn't allow you to use video to review it.

Not trying to be cocky, I just want to know what you would do in this case. The bookkeepers might not know if there's been a lot of subbing done in that quarter.

It's tough and you may not know. You might know a few of the players who were in, but likely not all five. Some scorers keep a running list of who is in the game at any point, but most do not. At the NCAA level this record is available, if there is electronic score-keeping.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's tough and you may not know. You might know a few of the players who were in, but likely not all five. Some scorers keep a running list of who is in the game at any point, but most do not. At the NCAA level this record is available, if there is electronic score-keeping.

So its highly possible that if the player on the floor is not in a warmup and despite their being more than 5 from one team on the floor that you can't eject them unless they are actually fighting?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Spence

So its highly possible that if the player on the floor is not in a warmup and despite their being more than 5 from one team on the floor that you can't eject them unless they are actually fighting?

Not sure what others will say, but in the aftermath if it is possible you can segregate any players still on the bench from those who went on the court. Then you get who you know were players at the time, then you can ask who was on the court at the time and go from there.

Bottom line, get the teams separated and take your time to get everything, including the penalties, as right as you possibly can.

[representing]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Not sure what others will say, but in the aftermath if it is possible you can segregate any players still on the bench from those who went on the court. Then you get who you know were players at the time, then you can ask who was on the court at the time and go from there.

Bottom line, get the teams separated and take your time to get everything, including the penalties, as right as you possibly can.

I was thinking that. When things settle down, tell coaches to keep those that left the bench on the playing court. He could get a Technical for not following the referee's order, couldn't he? wouldn't that fall under Unsporting?

[representing]

10-4-5

Coach wasn't beckoned on from what i can see in the video. He get's a Techincal foul.

Player left bench during a fight, all of them at DQ'd regardless. For each offender that gets involved with a fight, that's an additional Technical. All the player that left the bench, I don't think they got involved with fighting, but only came on to calm things down. Only one T is given to bench, which is also an Indirect to the coach. Coach now has one T on himself and an indirect from bench.

Since white doesn't seem to have anyone leaving bench, you shoot two FTs only and ball is at POI.

Did I read this right accordingly to the rulebook? I hope you guys are proud of me for actually opening up a rulebook now before running my mouth haha.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by representing

10-4-5

Coach wasn't beckoned on from what i can see in the video. He get's a Techincal foul.

If a fight like this breaks out no way I'm whacking a coach who comes out unless he isn't trying to break it up. He's beckoned as far as I'm concerned.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Spence

If a fight like this breaks out no way I'm whacking a coach who comes out unless he isn't trying to break it up. He's beckoned as far as I'm concerned.

I was just saying as far as the rulebook is concerned he should be T'd up. I probably wouldn't have whacked him as far as I'm concern, as long as he helps to break sh*t up.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

10-4-5

Coach wasn't beckoned on from what i can see in the video. He get's a Techincal foul.

PlayerTeam members left bench during a fight, all of them at DQ'd regardless. For each offender that gets involved with a fight, that's an additional Technical. All the playerteam members that left the bench, I don't think they got involved with fighting, but only came on to calm things down. Only one T is given to bench, which is also an Indirect to the coach. Coach now has one T on himself and an indirect from bench.

Since white doesn't seem to have anyone leaving bench, you shoot two FTs only and ball is at POI.

Did I read this right accordingly to the rulebook? I hope you guys are proud of me for actually opening up a rulebook now before running my mouth haha.

Since you are actually making an effort, I'll post a few specifics to help you.
1. Players are the five who are legally in the game. Team members are sitting on the bench. Substitutes are the team members who replace the players by going to the table (or sometimes incorrectly going straight from the bench into the court). So, you can't have "players" leaving the bench.

2. It is not an additional T for a team member to leave the bench and fight. It is merely a different category with a different penalty. The team member is already getting a flagrant T for leaving the bench during the altercation. He doesn't get another one for fighting.

[representing]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2. It is not an additional T for a team member to leave the bench and fight. It is merely a different category with a different penalty. The team member is already getting a flagrant T for leaving the bench during the altercation. He doesn't get another one for fighting.

So is this correct:

Since no one actually got involved, only one T to the bench, coach gets Indirect and sits while all the team members who left bench are DQ'd. But, if any players are involved in a fight, I thought that was another Technical for anyone, and they would shoot 2 FTs additionally to anyone who "fights" as to what the rulebook defines "fight" as.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by representing

10-4-5

Coach wasn't beckoned on from what i can see in the video. He get's a Techincal foul.

Player left bench during a fight, all of them at DQ'd regardless. For each offender that gets involved with a fight, that's an additional Technical. All the player that left the bench, I don't think they got involved with fighting, but only came on to calm things down. Only one T is given to bench, which is also an Indirect to the coach. Coach now has one T on himself and an indirect from bench.

Since white doesn't seem to have anyone leaving bench, you shoot two FTs only and ball is at POI.

Did I read this right accordingly to the rulebook? I hope you guys are proud of me for actually opening up a rulebook now before running my mouth haha.

Coach was beckoned...trust me...

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Coach was beckoned...trust me...

Absolutely.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Spence

So its highly possible that if the player on the floor is not in a warmup and despite their being more than 5 from one team on the floor that you can't eject them unless they are actually fighting?

First, let's correct a few things in your post to make it readable.

Originally Posted by Spence

So it's highly possible that if the team member on the floor is not in a warm-up, and despite there being more than 5 from one team on the floor, that you can't eject them unless they are actually fighting?

Now, if I understand your point, you are contending that a team member off the bench, who isn't observed fighting, might get away with the disqualifying offense of leaving the bench area because with only his uniform on, not a warm-up top, he would look like a player.

There is much truth in that.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

First, let's correct a few things in your post to make it readable.



Now, if I understand your point, you are contending that a team member off the bench, who isn't observed fighting, might get away with the disqualifying offense of leaving the bench area because with only his uniform on, not a warm-up top, he would look like a player.

There is much truth in that.

Nevada is certainly right that it's possible in the melee to miss someone who comes off the bench but then returns there. This is why many states will review video any time there has been a fight and dole out additional suspensions/punishment regardless of whether they were 'caught' at the time.