PC or did the push cause it?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Another video post waiting to be critiqued!

B10 takes the ball to the basket where W5 seems to have established legal guarding position on the play, however W11 (I think that is his number) puts a hand on his back. The contact is from the back side isn't a lot, but was it enough to give A11 the foul over a PC on B10?

YouTube - Push and Charge GH game 2010

also anything else you see in the play that the Trail could have done better?

Trail stepped the wrong way; no reason to step to the middle of the court. He should have stepped down along the sideline to get a better angle to see between the players. But the Trail did great in not having a preliminary and for closing in on the play after blowing his whistle. But what I really wish is that the Lead would have a whistle and a PC foul.

[biz]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Trail stepped the wrong way; no reason to step to the middle of the court. He should have stepped down along the sideline to get a better angle to see between the players. But the Trail did great in not having a preliminary and for closing in on the play after blowing his whistle. But what I really wish is that the Lead would have a whistle and a PC foul.

You're right that stepping down toward the endline and staying wide would have given the trail a better angle on the contact from behind and the possible PC foul, but I can't fault the trail here.

When the dribbler makes his move it looks to me like the defender is going to stay on his right hip which would make me step to the middle of the floor to see the space between the players and let my L take the secondary defender for a possible block/charge. The primary defender slows down to try for the block from behind which appears to straight-line the T but how are we to anticipate that from the initial action?

If the primary defender stays on the right hip of the shooter and the T steps wide and toward the endline he gets straight-lined, the C can't see through the defender, and the L is blocked out by the secondary defender, and no one sees the potential contact between the primary defender and the shooter.

I actually like that the T stepped to the middle of the floor. I think this call should have been made by C or the L.

[Clark Kent]

I ended up ringing up W11 with a push. Although hard to tell on the video (and maybe I was wrong) but I felt he had a hand on B10's backside. Wrong or right I still don't know, because I agree from the video I don't think the contact on the back is substantial, but in the moment and from my perspective/angle as T I felt like it was.

C was coming into make a call and was going PC on it, but did a great job of holding off.

Thanks for the opinions.

Rich, I'll see if I can add a few more seconds to it for ya.

[Clark Kent]

YouTube - Push and Charge GH game1 2010_02_03_09_37_15.avi

longer version

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

YouTube - Push and Charge GH game1 2010_02_03_09_37_15.avi

longer version

Just watched the longer version. I still think you should have closed down and moved closer to the sideline. But even in stepping towards the middle of the court you still should have closed down. You were a couple of steps away from the division line when you blew your whistle for a foul that occurred in the bottom half of the paint. That's a long way to come for a call.

If you called a push for a hand in back then that whistle should have come earlier. If you have a push, body-to-body, on the shot, then you were straight-lined and you are not in a position to see if there was contact.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I ended up ringing up W11 with a push. Although hard to tell on the video (and maybe I was wrong) but I felt he had a hand on B10's backside. Wrong or right I still don't know, because I agree from the video I don't think the contact on the back is substantial, but in the moment and from my perspective/angle as T I felt like it was.

C was coming into make a call and was going PC on it, but did a great job of holding off.

Thanks for the opinions.

Rich, I'll see if I can add a few more seconds to it for ya.

IMO, if you're going with the push then you need to come in strong verbalizing "PUSH" so that everyone in the gym knows you have a foul that caused the subsequent collision.

It's advice I've received from a couple of big dawgs. If you are coming in with a call that no one is expecting, then come in strong and leave no doubt what you have.

In your play, everyone expecting a PC or a block. The push call is not expected. And in this, I'm not saying your call is wrong, I'm just saying it is one of those occasions where the calling official does need to "sell" (for lack of a better word) his call.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by biz

When the dribbler makes his move it looks to me like the defender is going to stay on his right hip which would make me step to the middle of the floor to see the space between the players and let my L take the secondary defender for a possible block/charge. The primary defender slows down to try for the block from behind which appears to straight-line the T but how are we to anticipate that from the initial action?

If the primary defender stays on the right hip of the shooter and the T steps wide and toward the endline he gets straight-lined, the C can't see through the defender, and the L is blocked out by the secondary defender, and no one sees the potential contact between the primary defender and the shooter.

I actually like that the T stepped to the middle of the floor. I think this call should have been made by C or the L.

I agree 100%, and that's why I said in my first post that I liked the step to the middle of the court.

Nobody can have that angle but the T. C should have the open angle once the defender ends up behind the dribbler, and L should pick up the secondary defender. T stepped to a place that gave him a great angle to judge the contact when the defender was on the side.