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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:33pm
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too many players

Was just thinking about a game I had two years ago. Home team substitution, one player must have misheard that she was being subbed for. My partner gives the ball to opposing team for a throw-in and ball is thrown in. I see a girl running off the court and onto the bench. She didn't affect play at all, but my instinct immediately blew the whistle for too many players on the court.

I may have messed this up... I gave a T to the player that was the extra player on the court, and an indirect to the coach. Thinking about it now, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, and was probably thinking of soccer where an extra player gets the yellow card.

Only reason why I'm thinking of this is because I just got assigned a Girls JV at the school where this happened, and that team doesn't welcome me back in their gym for Girls JV anymore. I'm kind of secretively being assigned because if the school finds out, they'll call the assignor and try everything to get me off of that game.

What is the proper procedure for this? It's a T to the team, but nothing for coach and player right?
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:35pm
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
Was just thinking about a game I had two years ago. Home team substitution, one player must have misheard that she was being subbed for. My partner gives the ball to opposing team for a throw-in and ball is thrown in. I see a girl running off the court and onto the bench. She didn't affect play at all, but my instinct immediately blew the whistle for too many players on the court.

I may have messed this up... I gave a T to the player that was the extra player on the court, and an indirect to the coach. Thinking about it now, I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, and was probably thinking of soccer where an extra player gets the yellow card.

Only reason why I'm thinking of this is because I just got assigned a Girls JV at the school where this happened, and that team doesn't welcome me back in their gym for Girls JV anymore. I'm kind of secretively being assigned because if the school finds out, they'll call the assignor and try everything to get me off of that game.

What is the proper procedure for this? It's a T to the team, but nothing for coach and player right?
The proper procedure would've been to have your hand up until the sixth player went off the court and for your partner to be looking to see if his partner was ready.

Failing that, it's merely a team technical foul.

Personally, I hope every single JV program in the area has blackballed me from working their games. Of course, if a tree falls in the forest.....
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:36pm
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You're right, you were wrong. Just a Team T, nothing to the players or coach. You don't know which player was the 6th, she may have just taken the bullet.

Also, your assigner needs to grow a spine instead of sneaking around like that. They try to block you just because of a T for 6 players? Really? I've never had an assigner who'd have even taken that call.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:40pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Also, your assigner needs to grow a spine instead of sneaking around like that. They try to block you just because of a T for 6 players? Really? I've never had an assigner who'd have even taken that call.
That's how corrupted our league is, hence my ranting the other day about the system around here. It does suck. My assignor is a very powerful man, and knows other powerful people in the area and they "control" the basketball system around here. Like I said, it sucks!
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:42pm
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That's how corrupted our league is, hence my ranting the other day about the system around here. It does suck. My assignor is a very powerful man, and knows other powerful people in the area and they "control" the basketball system around here. Like I said, it sucks!
How powerful is he if he's sneaking you into that game?
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:44pm
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The proper procedure would've been to have your hand up until the sixth player went off the court and for your partner to be looking to see if his partner was ready.
We missed it. I didn't see that more players came onto the court than left the court, so that was our mistake in the first place. I put my hand down to signal that I'm ready and I hear the coach yelling to so-and-so "get off!"

Two questions... would any of you have called it if the girl came off just after the ball was thrown in and didn't affect the play at all?

Other question: how many team technicals can a team get? I don't see anything in the rulebook about team technicals, and since it isn't an indirect to the coach it seems like they can be given as many as necessary, and it would just be two FT to the other team and ball.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:46pm
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How powerful is he if he's sneaking you into that game?
I was actually given this game by someone else who can't do it and my assignor was all like "well, they don't like you there but I'll let you have the game anyways". As for telling the school that I'll be there, I don't know if he's doing that now or later in the week to make it like an "emergency replacement".
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:47pm
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We missed it. I didn't see that more players came onto the court than left the court, so that was our mistake in the first place. I put my hand down to signal that I'm ready and I hear the coach yelling to so-and-so "get off!"
I count the players on the court anytime we have more than a one-for-one substitution. It doesn't take long to count 5 and 5. The guy with the ball should be doing that, too. If I'm the administering official on a throw in, I'm counting the players, too. If my partner's hand is up, I'm not starting. If I count anything but 5 and 5, we're not starting.

If the ball's already on the court, there's not much you can do. If your partner is just handing the ball to the thrower-in, hit your whistle and stop them, and complete the sub. You'll take grief either way.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:51pm
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I count the players on the court anytime we have more than a one-for-one substitution. It doesn't take long to count 5 and 5. The guy with the ball should be doing that, too. If I'm the administering official on a throw in, I'm counting the players, too. If my partner's hand is up, I'm not starting. If I count anything but 5 and 5, we're not starting.

If the ball's already on the court, there's not much you can do. If your partner is just handing the ball to the thrower-in, hit your whistle and stop them, and complete the sub. You'll take grief either way.
Ever since that game I count 5 and 5 when it's more than 2 on and 2 off per team. If I see a team with not enough or too many players, I tell the coach.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:52pm
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If she's running off just as the ball gets in, I wouldn't see it. If she doesn't get off until a few seconds after the offense has the ball in bounds, not much you can do.

An assigner in this case, IMO, should have assigned you to their games just out of principal; unless they've officially blocked you.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:53pm
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Ever since that game I count 5 and 5 when it's more than 2 on and 2 off per team. If I see a team with not enough or too many players, I tell the coach.
I count every time there's a sub, even one. I had a 6 player T in a varsity game last year. All three of us missed it. Home coach asked me, "aren't you suppose to stop that from happening?" "Coach, we do count, but it's courtesy."
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:53pm
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Representing - based on your previous posts I think you should be open to the idea that there is more to you being scratched from this school than a technical foul for 6 players on the court. You've demonstrated a propensity for making up rules and not following others at will - to the point you may not even realize you make up rules or don't follow them perhaps (your insistence you handled situations correctly that not one other person here agrees with).

So perhaps instead of blaming a "system" or "powerful" people, you should focus on your own development and study the rules more effectively?

This is coming from a friendly place - just think you're playing the martyr without looking at the whole situation.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:56pm
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Representing - based on your previous posts I think you should be open to the idea that there is more to you being scratched from this school than a technical foul for 6 players on the court. You've demonstrated a propensity for making up rules and not following others at will - to the point you may not even realize you make up rules or don't follow them perhaps (your insistence you handled situations correctly that not one other person here agrees with).

So perhaps instead of blaming a "system" or "powerful" people, you should focus on your own development and study the rules more effectively?

This is coming from a friendly place - just think you're playing the martyr without looking at the whole situation.
Thanks for the tips, but in this case it was for the T. The coach tells everyone "I don't want him here because he called a T on me for too many players on the court" etc etc etc.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:56pm
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Ever since that game I count 5 and 5 when it's more than 2 on and 2 off per team. If I see a team with not enough or too many players, I tell the coach.
Count them EVERY TIME it's more than 1 player on and off from ONE TEAM. One sub is easy. Beyond that, how can you be sure?

While the rules ultimately put the onus on the team, this is something that can and should be prevented.

Take your role in preventing this seriously and get in the habit of having your hand up keeping play from starting until you've personally verified that each team has five players. In your pregame, mention that no throw-in should occur while the off official has his hand up.
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Old Tue Jan 26, 2010, 01:58pm
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Count them EVERY TIME it's more than 1 player on and off from ONE TEAM. One sub is easy. Beyond that, how can you be sure?

While the rules ultimately put the onus on the team, this is something that can and should be prevented.

Take your role in preventing this seriously and get in the habit of having your hand up keeping play from starting until you've personally verified that each team has five players. In your pregame, mention that no throw-in should occur while the off official has his hand up.
This is good tip, I will definitely do this!
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