Opinions....thoughts

[bbcof83]

I see it a bit differently. White is definitely pissed that she is being harassed as she dribbles. There must be some history or just a real attitude on white. She doesn't swing at the red player per se, but that is really wild, unorthodox throwing movement of her arms. She's definitely is not trying NOT to hit her (if that makes sense). She is not doing a standard or even flashy pass. That is movement born out of frustration.

I could perhaps see an intentional especially if there is history with this player. Prob not flagrant, but common, intentional or flagrant, I'm definitely having a word with this player and/or her coach.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Agree I think it is impossible to know just watching the video. It comes down to the judgement of the official on the spot, and best believe if that is me and I had to separate the two of them at the other end of the floor 30 seconds ago, I am taking that into account when I decide what W's true intent was.

Agreed.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Yeah you guys are right, went back and looked again and I do see the arm grab - and the elbow looks to be the result of the momentum caused by the grab and subsequent body spin. Foul on red that's about it - again unless you judge that the spin and elbow by white was intentional. In which case you could have a false double with the second half being flagrant and ejection.

Agreed. I would just have the common foul on red from my six-replays look.

[jeffpea]

for those of you that said she lost conciousness, can i ask what medical school you attended which trained you to make that diagnosis from the chair in front of your computer screen?

while you may play the role of basketball official many evenings during the winter, don't pretend to be a medical professional....if you have a question about it, ask the trainer/medical staff at the game; don't make that judgement on your own.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

for those of you that said she lost conciousness, can i ask what medical school you attended which trained you to make that diagnosis from the chair in front of your computer screen?

while you may play the role of basketball official many evenings during the winter, don't pretend to be a medical professional....if you have a question about it, ask the trainer/medical staff at the game; don't make that judgement on your own.

2-8-5: Determine when a player is apparently unconscious. Teh player may not return to play in the game without written authorization from a physician (MD/OD).

That's what I need to give me the authority to tell the coach that the player isn't coming back in without a doctor's note.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

for those of you that said she lost conciousness, can i ask what medical school you attended which trained you to make that diagnosis from the chair in front of your computer screen?

while you may play the role of basketball official many evenings during the winter, don't pretend to be a medical professional....if you have a question about it, ask the trainer/medical staff at the game; don't make that judgement on your own.

I usually agree with everything you say, but the rules say that we can determine a player is unconscious. Now we may not be totally accurate, but all that is required for them to play is a verification of their health and fortunately or unfortunately we are given that responsibility here. And for the record this is a NF policy in other rules like Football and Baseball (I would assume that this is also the case in other NF rulebooks for different sports) that I work that uses the same language and puts officials/umpires in the same responsibility for making this determination. I also think this is so that coaches do not just bring back in players that clearly have been hurt and since being unconscious deals mostly with the brain or overall health of a person, the NF wants a doctor to verify that a player is not let back in too soon. I would honestly hope that a coach was more responsible for this, but somewhere coaches must have put players back in the game when they were not medically cleared or ready to participate.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

for those of you that said she lost conciousness, can i ask what medical school you attended which trained you to make that diagnosis from the chair in front of your computer screen?

while you may play the role of basketball official many evenings during the winter, don't pretend to be a medical professional....if you have a question about it, ask the trainer/medical staff at the game; don't make that judgement on your own.

That is complete garbage...I don't need to be a medical professional to determine that a player appears to lose consciousness. Especially in this video. That kid is leaving and not coming back in without a doctor's approval, and I don't need to ask anyone's permission to do that.

And if you can't tell she appears to lose consciousness from the video, then maybe you need a bigger screen to help with that eyesight problem.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would honestly hope that a coach was more responsible for this, but somewhere coaches must have put players back in the game when they were not medically cleared or ready to participate.

Peace

Like maybe Texas Tech?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Like maybe Texas Tech?

And he had medical backing by a trainer. But this example just shows how this is a slippery slope if we give only coaches the responsibility to make these decisions.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And he had medical backing by a trainer. But this example just shows how this is a slippery slope if we give only coaches the responsibility to make these decisions.

Peace

I wouldn't say he had backing so much as the acquiescence of a trainer in his employ. But you're right, and that was why I brought it up.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I wouldn't say he had backing so much as the acquiescence of a trainer in his employ. But you're right, and that was why I brought it up.

According to the trainer at Texas Tech, he claimed what the coach did was acceptable (after the coach was fired). So he did have some medical backing, but maybe not enough to get medical support from a doctor or even a specialist.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

According to the trainer at Texas Tech, he claimed what the coach did was acceptable (after the coach was fired). So he did have some medical backing, but maybe not enough to get medical support from a doctor or even a specialist.

Peace

I must have read a different statement. What I read said (paraphrasing now), while it most likely did not cause any harm to the player, it is not accepted medical practice.

Just checked, it was the treating physician:

Phy told university officials in his affidavit that James "may not have been harmed," but he "considered this practice inappropriate, and a deviation from the medical standard of care."

Final edit. Looks like the trainer wasn't exactly on board, either.

According to his affidavit, taken by representatives of the university on Dec. 21 and signed on Jan. 1, trainer Steve Pincock did not agree with the treatment and said he knew of no other player ever being placed in a similar room.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is complete garbage...I don't need to be a medical professional to determine that a player appears to lose consciousness. Especially in this video. That kid is leaving and not coming back in without a doctor's approval, and I don't need to ask anyone's permission to do that.

And if you can't tell she appears to lose consciousness from the video, then maybe you need a bigger screen to help with that eyesight problem.

Agree totally, PEA seems to have his panties in a bind. I havent' had to make an "unconscious" call yet, that's why I was asking. This forum has correctly guided me in a lot of areas, PEA's post is one of the few that I could do without.

[deecee]

defensive foul all the way.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

That is complete garbage...I don't need to be a medical professional to determine that a player appears to lose consciousness. Especially in this video. That kid is leaving and not coming back in without a doctor's approval, and I don't need to ask anyone's permission to do that.

And if you can't tell she appears to lose consciousness from the video, then maybe you need a bigger screen to help with that eyesight problem.

Agreed. Besides, wouldn't you rather err on the side of the player's safety rather than saying "Well, I'm no doctor, so I guess she can play..."