Opinions....thoughts

[bbcof83]

I see it a bit differently. White is definitely pissed that she is being harassed as she dribbles. There must be some history or just a real attitude on white. She doesn't swing at the red player per se, but that is really wild, unorthodox throwing movement of her arms. She's definitely is not trying NOT to hit her (if that makes sense). She is not doing a standard or even flashy pass. That is movement born out of frustration.

I could perhaps see an intentional especially if there is history with this player. Prob not flagrant, but common, intentional or flagrant, I'm definitely having a word with this player and/or her coach.

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Agree I think it is impossible to know just watching the video. It comes down to the judgement of the official on the spot, and best believe if that is me and I had to separate the two of them at the other end of the floor 30 seconds ago, I am taking that into account when I decide what W's true intent was.

Agreed.

[deecee]

defensive foul all the way.

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Would love to know if there was any "history" to this pair. Agreed it appears it should be simply common foul on red but, man, does it appear the ballhandler is totally indifferent about the defender hitting the deck -- and collapsing. That's the epitome of cold.

I have always enjoyed cold women.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see anything flagrant about this. Just because you get hit in the head does not mean that was illegal. And it looks like the defender caused contact with the ball handler first and prevented the dribbler from passing the ball properly. Just because you got hit in the head does not mean someone was trying to hurt you. I got nothing but a regular foul as the officials appeared to have here.

Peace

Agree with Rut, it looks like she's attempting to pass. Thought she got hit with the ball the first time I looked. This does not look malicious to me, just something that sometimes happens in basketball. Too bad she didn't try to help her up the first time, but who teaches sportsmanship these days? Another question in this situation as the official, would you rule she needs a doctor approval to continue playing? She looks unconcious to me and that is what I would rule.

[jdw3018]

From the video, she appears to me to lose conciousness when she falls to the floor.

No reasonable coach is going to put that player back in the game before getting checked out anyway, but in my game it's going to require a doctor's note.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

Agree with Rut, it looks like she's attempting to pass. Thought she got hit with the ball the first time I looked. This does not look malicious to me, just something that sometimes happens in basketball. Too bad she didn't try to help her up the first time, but who teaches sportsmanship these days? Another question in this situation as the official, would you rule she needs a doctor approval to continue playing? She looks unconcious to me and that is what I would rule.

Yes....I wouldn't let her back in without a doc's approval.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

Another question in this situation as the official, would you rule she needs a doctor approval to continue playing? She looks unconcious to me and that is what I would rule.

Yes, she is going to need doctor's approval if I am on the game. If she is not unconscious, I do not know what she is after falling out like that.

Peace

[Adam]

Video's pretty grainy, so it's hard to tell for sure. Looks like red grabs white's arm, and due to momentum caused by the first foul, white hits red in the face when she tries to pass the ball away.

[bbcoach7]

OK, this is a coaches perspective and one that I've not even heard from other coaches. But I am known as a coach who is really into and observant of the mental/emotional aspects of coaching girls. I feel it's a must if you want to get the most out of female players. There's an old coaching saying, "girls don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." Boys (90% or more) will "run through the wall" whether they like their coach or not because of the competetive nature of boys. Girls are different.

Boys grow up playing basketball in unsupervised situations; after school, in parks, in the driveway, at recess with the lunch monitor no where in sight, etc. When I was 10 yrs old, if I shoved an airborne shooter (layup) into the basket support pole, there's a good chance I'd get punched in the mouth because there's no adult right there to make sure that doesn't happen. Boys develop a basic form of respect for their opponent that girls don't experience, because when girls start playing basketball, there is virtually always an adult with a whistle right there. With rare exception, girls only play in supervised conditions. There's no threat of physical consequences for doing something stupid like trying to hit an opponent in the face with the ball as hard as you can because you just got spun around on a hard foul.

Is this provable? Absolutely not. Did Red commit a hold foul? Sure did. Can only do something about what is visible and clear- the foul by Red.

Girls will dive, or barrel roll through an opponents legs when the ball is on the other side of those legs rolling out of bounds. When two are chasing a ball out of bounds, girls will use their momentum to continue to push their opponent into the stands, or into a close wall on an endline, when they could have just made a slight body adjustment in angle, or force and protected their opponent a little bit. Girls will "hip check" airborne shooters. Girls will take the legs out of the shooter on layup attempts. Girls will use the most foul disgusting language at opponents very quietly so referee's don't hear. Girls will throw the basketball directly at an opponents face. Girls will raise their elbows like a football O lineman while screening. I could go on, but there's no reason to.

I believe that boys learn at an early age to not do these kinds of things. They learn an essential and very basic respect for their opponents that girls miss out on. I'm not saying that ALL girls play this way. But I've seen the comments in posts in here, "Why is is that these things seem to always happen in girls games?"

Boys don't put up with that kind of thing. That exact thing happens in a boys game, and do you think the other 9 players are just standing around? I think there may be some tempers flared, or worse. In this video, I think her (white) body language says it all, "that's right, I just punched yoU in the face with the ball *****."

[Adam]

Coach, you got me thinking. I wonder if it doesn't also partially explain the whole "ball ball ball" think being only something girls do. Boys would, as the coach mentioned in another thread, set a hard screen pretty quickly. It's the equivalent of a high and tight pitch in baseball to a batter who took his sweet time circling the bases on his homerun the time before.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

Girls will dive, or barrel roll through an opponents legs when the ball is on the other side of those legs rolling out of bounds. When two are chasing a ball out of bounds, girls will use their momentum to continue to push their opponent into the stands, or into a close wall on an endline, when they could have just made a slight body adjustment in angle, or force and protected their opponent a little bit. Girls will "hip check" airborne shooters. Girls will take the legs out of the shooter on layup attempts. Girls will use the most foul disgusting language at opponents very quietly so referee's don't hear. Girls will throw the basketball directly at an opponents face. Girls will raise their elbows like a football O lineman while screening. I could go on, but there's no reason to.

I agree and one of the main reasons I stay away. Because when these girls fall and get hurt, it is not about what the coaches allow, it is that I did not call a foul that sometimes is not a foul. I have only seen girls get blazing mad when they are fouled during the course of a regular play. Boys have to build up to that problem and usually they get upset over the course of a situation.

And I do agree that boy's learn how to compete very early. Girls often come to the table late or did not compete as really young. Or at the very least we teach them not to be tough, so when they are confronted with contact or pain, they overreact. Of course this is not apply to all of them. The girls that compete hard and do not get mad tend to be the best players. They somewhere realize they do not have to get that girl back because she fouled her. But the girls that get run into and want to fight tend to be the problem makers. And too often there are way too many of those players.

Peace