Defender counting out loud during inbound

[twing1115]

I started out as a college assistant for 5 years and am currently coaching high school. I got this idea after attending a coaching clinic hosted by the late Skip Prosser at Wake Forest when he was speaking about his full court pressure philosophy. When my local official respectfully told me that I could not do this following half time I respectfully asked him why and we simply chatted for a minute. I told my guys to stop and they did. Would it change anything if prior to the game I adressed this with the officail and told them my intent. Personally my feeling is that an official shouln't worry about looking like an azzhole to the crowd. Remember I am an umpire and have taken a ton of you know what when calling balls and strikes from the crowd and never once has it bothered me or influenced the way I make calls.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I started out as a college assistant for 5 years and am currently coaching high school. I got this idea after attending a coaching clinic hosted by the late Skip Prosser at Wake Forest when he was speaking about his full court pressure philosophy. When my local official respectfully told me that I could not do this following half time I respectfully asked him why and we simply chatted for a minute. I told my guys to stop and they did. Would it change anything if prior to the game I adressed this with the officail and told them my intent. Personally my feeling is that an official shouln't worry about looking like an azzhole to the crowd. Remember I am an umpire and have taken a ton of you know what when calling balls and strikes from the crowd and never once has it bothered me or influenced the way I make calls.

The way I look at it: Your team is allowed to act like your team (making defensive calls when on defense and offensive calls when on offense). You wouldn't be allowed to, for example, have one of your players stand near the opposing bench and call "motion" when your team was on defense, or have one of your players yell "screen right" to the opposing point guard when your point guard was bringing the ball up the court (and took advantage of the hedging move the other guard made when hearing the call).

Nor are you allowed to make official calls. Yes, sometime you (or many) call "3 seconds" or "5 seconds" or "travel." But, if those calls are all the time, they get shut down, too.

[twing1115]

Really. Until I read "hanging on the rim" I figured it was a girls team. In my experience they're the only ones who yell and talk the whole game. Boys teams usually just play basketball.

Not sure who your reffing. What about teams that play a match-up zone? Is it girly for them to talk? Should players be silent on screens? Every coach in america has there team talking in practice when they are doing shell defense. Every sucessful trapping team must talk in transition to scramble for match-ups. If your going to practice that way why wouldn't you play that way?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.

What's this have to do with the OP and the responses you received?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T.

You've been given the ruling and you didn't like it; so you call us out for our egos? Nice.

Again, what level of ball do you coach where the officials have allowed this? You mention hanging on the rim, so I'm going to assume varsity; but it's just a guess.

FWIW, I haven't heard "ball ball ball" or other such noise since I worked my last girls game in Iowa.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by twing1115

Wow!!! Egos, egos, everywhere. I never said that I was right. I was
attempting to get a professional ruling. If it is in fact illegal I will stop, as I don't want to be assessed a T. With that said keep your coaching advice to yourself. A good official can have a productive dialog with a coach. My teams are known for talking the entire game. We play an aggressive full court game where we attemp to get our opponents to rush. We trap and are all over the court. We say "shot" everytime. We say "I've got ball." We say I've got help. In traps we yell "Bury, Bury, Bury." (If youve ever played the game you understand the difference between a silent trap and a loud trap). On rebounds we yell ball. We huddle at every opportunity and never talk to officials. This year my team has recieved two technicals. One for hanging on the rim..ref was correct. The other was reaching over the line twice (once touching the ball...this is bound to happen because we chart 5 second calls and average over two per game.

Coach:

No one has thrown his ego around in this thread yet, but now I will. JurRef as quoted chapter and verse for you and very accurately described why coaches have their players do what you have your players do. We officials are not stupid, we are far wiser about the horse manure some coaches try to throw on us in the name of gamemanship and then get mad when we correctly do our job and stop the nonsense you are trying to impose upon this great game.

MTD, Sr.

[twing1115]

Then, since all (here) agree that the count is unsporting, I think you have to stop teaching it.

AS I stated earlier, after having a respectful conversation with the ref I had no problem telling my guys to stop.

[twing1115]

JurRef as quoted chapter and verse for you and very accurately described why coaches have their players do what you have your players do. We officials are not stupid, we are far wiser about the horse manure some coaches try to throw on us in the name of gamemanship and then get mad when we correctly do our job and stop the nonsense you are trying to impose upon this great game.

There you go...throw your weight around. Give me a break. It's funny how short some guys get when the "opposition" asks a question. Yes JurRef gave me an explanation and I am certainly thankful for it. Perhaps I missed a bit of playful sarcasm when he said Bad, Bad, ref. So JurRef: Thank you. But I shouldn't feel like a shark in the water when I'm simply asking a simple question in order to become more knowledgable.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I'm a coach and would like to get some clarification. When an offensive team is inbounding the ball I instruct my player who is defending the inbounder to count out loud to five. Yesterday I was told that my players were not allowed to do this. The ref said that I could say anything else "Apples,Apples Apples" but not numbers. I have been searching high and low in a rule book for a rule preventing a team from doing this. The ref gave a warning and said that we could be called for unsportsmanlike or disconsertion. I've read about disconcertion and have only seen explanations that relate to free throws. Please help me out.

Let me see if I've got this right.....you come on here and you are asking us to help you out??? Help you out to do what??? Give you and your players "help" so you can screw with an official???
If it were me..I'd get you where it hurts more...T on your player, indirect T to you.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

If it were me..I'd get you where it hurts more...T on your player, indirect T to you.

You can only do that by rule if someone on the bench is doing the counting....

In this situation, your choices are a "T" on the person committing the unsporting act or a "T" on the person teaching the unsporting act. You have rules backing for either, but not both.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

If it were me..I'd get you where it hurts more...T on your player, indirect T to you.

Please don't do this. You can give a T to the player or to the coach, but you cannot give the coach an indirect T for a TF charged to a player on the court.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Please don't do this. You can give a T to the player or to the coach, but you cannot give the coach an indirect T for a TF charged to a player on the court.

Got it Snags. Thnx.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by twing1115

I'm a coach and would like to get some clarification. When an offensive team is inbounding the ball I instruct my player who is defending the inbounder to count out loud to five. Yesterday I was told that my players were not allowed to do this. The ref said that I could say anything else "Apples,Apples Apples" but not numbers. I have been searching high and low in a rule book for a rule preventing a team from doing this. The ref gave a warning and said that we could be called for unsportsmanlike or disconsertion. I've read about disconcertion and have only seen explanations that relate to free throws. Please help me out.

Try this, instead. Have your player on the ball try to mirror the ball to make the throw-in difficult, have the other four players deny their men the ball really hard, let the official count to five, and then work on your under-the-basket inbounds play.

There are many other unsporting acts that you can "teach" your team to commit (disconcerting the FT shooter, etc.) in the name of creating a competitive advantage for your team. Unfortunately, none of them is legal. Lots of ways to create anxiety on the part of the opponent. Most involve simply playing hard.