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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 01:46am
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less than 3/10ths of a second left

In tonights game, Girls JV, coach of losing team (by 2 points) requests a time out. Now, the whole game he never verbally says "time out" but signals time out by making a "T" with his hands. As soon as I recognized him requesting a time out. My partner and I looked at the clock during the time out and sees that there are only .2 second left on the clock. While I know the coaches are supposed to know that .3 or less on the clock there can not be a catch and shoot situation, but rather that the player must tap the ball. Should we have to tell the coach "hey, the rules say that .3 or less it must be a tap for a try at a shot" or should we not tell them, assuming they should know it just like any other rules that they might actually NOT know?

End results: balls inbounded to a player who did catch the ball with both hands and just as she shot it I blew my whistle to say "shot is not legal" and got my *** out of that court. Luckily she did not make the basket and game would have been over regardless.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 01:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by representing View Post
Should we have to tell the coach "hey, the rules say that .3 or less it must be a tap for a try at a shot" or should we not tell them, assuming they should know it just like any other rules that they might actually NOT know?
Whatever you do, say nothing about this. It is not part of your job.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 01:51am
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I won't say anything unless they ask.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 01:54am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Whatever you do, say nothing about this. It is not part of your job.
That's what I thought so. Assistant coach of home team told my partner "hey, you know there's less than 3/10ths of a second, it has to be tapped in. You should tell the coach that". Then my partner came to me and was like "should we tell him" and I said "hell no, he should know that. Coaches thinks they know the rules better than officials, so he should know this already". Low and behold, coach probably didn't know this and the player actually caught the ball before shooting. Like I said, I blew the play dead right after buzzer went off and left. If the ball would have went in I would have had a lot of 'splaining to do!
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 02:01am
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This is a situation I find fascinating. I've had it a few times. Player catches and shoots, obviously gets the shot away before the buzzer. I wave it off. Fans start to form a lynch mob. Then, if it's a little kids game, I have explained the rule to the handful of fans. Amazing to watch the changes in expressions.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 06:42am
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Yikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
This is a situation I find fascinating. I've had it a few times. Player catches and shoots, obviously gets the shot away before the buzzer. I wave it off. Fans start to form a lynch mob. Then, if it's a little kids game, I have explained the rule to the handful of fans. Amazing to watch the changes in expressions.
I've had to explain it a few times after the fact too - when asked.

But, as others have said, I'm not explaining a rule to a coach before a play.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 07:26am
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Originally Posted by representing View Post
Assistant coach of home team told my partner "hey, you know there's less than 3/10ths of a second, it has to be tapped in. You should tell the coach that".
The correct response is: "That's a coaching point; if anyone should tell him, it's you."
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 10:30am
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Situation

Here is a situation that occurred in my state that is relevant to this topic (from a reliable source and no, I was not on this game):

A2 completes a throw-in with 0.3 seconds remaining in the 2nd quarter. A1 gathers control of the ball, shoots, and scores before the horn sounds ending the first half. The officials count the basket and they, along with both teams, head to their respective locker rooms for halftime.

After the teams and officials have returned to the floor at the conclusion of halftime, the head coach of Team B meets with the officials and questions the last basket of the half. Since the clock read 0.3 seconds, the only way Team A could have scored was by a tap.

This scenario was forwarded to the NFHS office and the situation is going to the rules committee in April.

However, it is my belief that this scenario is covered under 2-10-1e and 2.10.1 Situation C (if the officials have definite knowledge that 0.3 seconds or less remained in the half at the last throw-in and the ball was caught on the shot attempt). If the officials do not have definite knowledge of the time remaining (0.3 seconds or less) and if the ball was secured on the shot attempt, then I believe the original call has to stand.

I do not know what the officials decided to do in this situation.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 10:59am
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When this rule was first implemented, it WAS our job to tell the coaches that they could not catch and shoot with 0.3 or less on the clock...but that was just for that first year. Since then, everyone involved should know the rule, so no - you don't have to inform them. If they ask, tell them, but don't go to them with the information.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 05:10pm
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Case 5.2.5 A, (2008-2009 Case Book) specifically rules out allowing a goal with 0.3 seconds or less even if the ball is caught, and released before the horn sounds.
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Old Tue Jan 19, 2010, 08:29pm
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Originally Posted by FrankHtown View Post
Case 5.2.5 A, (2008-2009 Case Book) specifically rules out allowing a goal with 0.3 seconds or less even if the ball is caught, and released before the horn sounds.
it doesn't rule out allowing a goal. You just would not be allowed to catch the ball. You can tap the ball in for a successful try if the team can manage to work that out.
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Old Wed Jan 20, 2010, 08:47am
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Please read it carefully. I expressly cited a catch and shoot, not a tap. By the case cited, even if the caught ball is released BEFORE the horn, by rule, the goal does not count.
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Old Wed Jan 20, 2010, 10:37am
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Assume Nothing!

While I know the coaches are supposed to know that .3 or less on the clock there can not be a catch and shoot situation, but rather that the player must tap the ball. Should we have to tell the coach "hey, the rules say that .3 or less it must be a tap for a try at a shot" or should we not tell them, assuming they should know it just like any other rules that they might actually NOT know?

When I first started reffing, I thought the coaches knew all the rules. Experience has shown me that most coaches know very few rules. Coaches study basketball plays not the rules like we do. I NEVER ASSUME a coach knows the rules. The same applies to past players that think they can jump on the court and reff even a 5-6 level game.
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