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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 04:23pm
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I left one out there

A lot of you talk about how officials are more apt to question the technicals they didn't call than the ones they did call. This morning, I had one of those.

Varsity boys game. Visiting assistant is chirping, not constantly, but periodically when he doesn't like the call. Standard stuff, nothing major, but something I should have addressed by about the end of the first quarter or early second quarter. Before I knew it, it was the 4th quarter and I made the decision that since I'd let it go for so long, I may as well let it go now and ignore it unless it gets worse.

Then, in the 4th quarter, visiting A1 has a breakaway layup and B1 attempts to block it, striking the backboard. Legitimate block attempt, so there was no call to make.

Next thing I know (I'm now C heading back the other way), I look up and see most of the visiting bench up signaling for timeout. I call TO, and coach tells me he didn't ask for a TO, he was telling us we missed a technical foul. After a brief disagreement on the rule, he decided to take his TO after all.

I should have T'd his assistant up for being off the bench. I should have.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 05:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Varsity boys game. Visiting assistant is chirping, not constantly, but periodically when he doesn't like the call. Standard stuff, nothing major, but something I should have addressed by about the end of the first quarter or early second quarter. Before I knew it, it was the 4th quarter and I made the decision that since I'd let it go for so long, I may as well let it go now and ignore it unless it gets worse.

Then, in the 4th quarter, visiting A1 has a breakaway layup and B1 attempts to block it, striking the backboard. Legitimate block attempt, so there was no call to make.

Next thing I know (I'm now C heading back the other way), I look up and see most of the visiting bench up signaling for timeout. I call TO, and coach tells me he didn't ask for a TO, he was telling us we missed a technical foul. After a brief disagreement on the rule, he decided to take his TO after all.

I should have T'd his assistant up for being off the bench. I should have.
So you're saying that "most of the bench" was up making a T signal, which the coach told you was not a time out signal?

Sounds like a definitive example of "attempting to influence an official's decision," not to mention the fact that they were standing for an inappropriate reason.

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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 06:10pm
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 06:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
So you're saying that "most of the bench" was up making a T signal, which the coach told you was not a time out signal?

Sounds like a definitive example of "attempting to influence an official's decision," not to mention the fact that they were standing for an inappropriate reason.

10-4
Coach: I didn't ask for a TO!!
Snaqs: Okay, then I'll assess a technical for your bench being up and addressing the official.
Coach: Oh, yea, right, I DID want I TO.

Sounds like good "game management" to me.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 06:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Coach: I didn't ask for a TO!!
Coach: "I didn't ask for a TO!!"
Me: "Good thing. I don't think you'd get Terrell Owens to come over here anyway."

The meds are definitely not helping.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 06:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Coach: I didn't ask for a TO!!
Snaqs: Okay, then I'll assess a technical for your bench being up and addressing the official.
Coach: Oh, yea, right, I DID want I TO.

Sounds like good "game management" to me.

I agree completely. Don't beat yourself up over this one.

You might have addressed the assistant situation with a couple of early words though.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 07:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Coach: I didn't ask for a TO!!
Snaqs: Okay, then I'll assess a technical for your bench being up and addressing the official.
Coach: Oh, yea, right, I DID want I TO.

Sounds like good "game management" to me.
Whether it was a time out request or not, it is frowned upon for "most of the bench" to be up addressing the official. When the coach stated that it was not a time out request, sounds like he finished painting himself into a corner.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 07:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLydic
You might have addressed the assistant situation with a couple of early words though.
I agree with this, that's what I'm trying to work on this year; finding a moment to have a word with the HC about his bench. Trouble is, I don't want to stop the game for this; and by next time I find myself in front of his bench with time to address it, the situation is over and the ***'t coach is quiet and I forget about it due to the action at hand.

I've got to either go ahead and stop the game, or find a way to remember to address the bench issue when I'm over there.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 07:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Whether it was a time out request or not, it is frowned upon for "most of the bench" to be up addressing the official. When the coach stated that it was not a time out request, sounds like he finished painting himself into a corner.
Agreed, which is why I should have followed his statement by turning to the bench to report a technical foul on the assistant coach for being up off the bench for an unauthorized reason. I didn't, and that's the one I left out there.
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Old Sat Dec 15, 2007, 11:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I agree with this, that's what I'm trying to work on this year; finding a moment to have a word with the HC about his bench. Trouble is, I don't want to stop the game for this; and by next time I find myself in front of his bench with time to address it, the situation is over and the ***'t coach is quiet and I forget about it due to the action at hand.

I've got to either go ahead and stop the game, or find a way to remember to address the bench issue when I'm over there.
The sooner you identify a problem the quicker it will be corrected.

The longer you wait the shorter the memory for some coaches.

I address the issue on the next dead ball even if it takes a few seconds longer to do
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Old Sun Dec 16, 2007, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
I agree with this, that's what I'm trying to work on this year; finding a moment to have a word with the HC about his bench. Trouble is, I don't want to stop the game for this; and by next time I find myself in front of his bench with time to address it, the situation is over and the ***'t coach is quiet and I forget about it due to the action at hand.

I've got to either go ahead and stop the game, or find a way to remember to address the bench issue when I'm over there.
I've seen good refs force a "rotation" so they can end up "stopping by" a coach on the way past. I've tried it a few times, but don't have the hang of it. It takes a capable partner, and a good eye for the opportunity, and being able to run fast enough to get back into position quickly.
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Old Sun Dec 16, 2007, 10:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmaker
Coach: I didn't ask for a TO!!
Snaqs: Okay, then I'll assess a technical for your bench being up and addressing the official.
Coach: Oh, yea, right, I DID want I TO.

Sounds like good "game management" to me.
I think it would be pretty good game management, but where did you get all this from? The original post didn't say it happened like this.
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Old Sun Dec 16, 2007, 12:44pm
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If you haven't addressed the assistant's behavior by now, I agree that you're going to have to live with it in the 4th quarter as long as it doesn't suddenly leap across the line.

However, if the whole bench is up over a percieved missed T I don't think you can single out just the unwarned assistant for being part of the mob. If this is the first time they've all been up like this, I'd have the "get your bench under control" chat with the HC, which is how I'd handle it if it were in the first quarter. And throw in a, "Especially your assistant" just to get that taken care of.

But even if the mob rose up again, I would still be loathe to tag just the assistant. Now if the assistant started chirping...
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Last edited by Back In The Saddle; Sun Dec 16, 2007 at 12:47pm.
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Old Sun Dec 16, 2007, 12:48pm
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I think that if you decide, for whatever reason, to pass on a T, you can change your mind anytime during the game and issue it later. When asked what is going on, just tell them it's a do-over.
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Old Sun Dec 16, 2007, 01:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun
I think it would be pretty good game management, but where did you get all this from? The original post didn't say it happened like this.
I was interpolating/extrapolating/conjecturing/projecting/guessing about the details of the conversation. Also, not responding to the OP, but to JAR.
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