Need Clarification...

[bas2456]

I'm out of town and don't have my books with me.

In my game this morning, I was the lead on a play. A1 shoots a 3. While the ball is in the air, A2 fouls B1 underneath the basket. The ball goes in.

Was I right not to count the basket on this play?

[BktBallRef]

No, you were not.

Only a PC foul causes a shot in flight to become dead.

[26 Year Gap]

I had this play last night. I counted the 3 and then awarded the other team the ball at the spot...which was wrong. I should have given them the run of the end line which they would have had if there had been no foul.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I had this play last night. I counted the 3 and then awarded the other team the ball at the spot...which was wrong. I should have given them the run of the end line which they would have had if there had been no foul.

So summarizing what I should have done...

Count the basket, report the foul, award the ball to Team B with the ability to run the endline. Right?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bas2456

So summarizing what I should have done...

Count the basket, report the foul, award the ball to Team B with the ability to run the endline. Right?

Correct, unless bonus FTs should be awarded.

[bas2456]

Thanks for the help.

[representing]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I had this play last night. I counted the 3 and then awarded the other team the ball at the spot...which was wrong. I should have given them the run of the end line which they would have had if there had been no foul.

Could you reference this to the rulebook? I'm just wondering why you would allow the team to run the end line if they were fouled before a made basket. I would understand if it would have been after the basket was made and a foul occurred to allow the team to run the end line, but can't understand why you would allow the team to run if the basket wasn't even made yet before the foul occurred.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by representing

Could you reference this to the rulebook? I'm just wondering why you would allow the team to run the end line if they were fouled before a made basket. I would understand if it would have been after the basket was made and a foul occurred to allow the team to run the end line, but can't understand why you would allow the team to run if the basket wasn't even made yet before the foul occurred.

Because the goal being successful is the final action which happens on the play. The ball does not become dead on the foul as there is a try in flight, so when the try goes through the basket, that makes the ball dead and ends the play.

Basically, if a team gets scored on, and somehow also receives the ball for a throw-in which would be on the end line, then the team may run.

It's straight out of the Case Book:

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field
goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B
will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

So summarizing what I should have done...

Count the basket, report the foul, award the ball to Team B with the ability to run the endline. Right?

Correct in your case.

Note that if A2's foul had been nearer a sideline, then the throw-in spot would be at the sideline (and not running the end-line)

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Correct in your case.

Note that if A2's foul had been nearer a sideline, then the throw-in spot would be at the sideline (and not running the end-line)

In my play, the foul occurred in the paint. Shooter's teammate shoved opponent so opponent was under the rim and would have had no chance at a rebound had the attempt been unsuccessful. I rewarded, in a sense, the shooting team as their opponents were not in the bonus.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because the goal being successful is the final action which happens on the play. The ball does not become dead on the foul as there is a try in flight, so when the try goes through the basket, that makes the ball dead and ends the play.

Basically, if a team gets scored on, and somehow also receives the ball for a throw-in which would be on the end line, then the team may run.

It's straight out of the Case Book:

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field
goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B
will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

Right result, wrong reason. It is not about what is the final action. If they are fouled (personal) after the try is successful but before they complete the throwin, they still get to run the endline (assuming the throwin spot is on the endline).

It is about not losing the right to run the endline as a result of the other team committing an infraction when the subsequent throwin remains on the endline.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Right result, wrong reason. It is not about what is the final action. If they are fouled (personal) after the try is successful but before they complete the throwin, they still get to run the endline (assuming the throwin spot is on the endline).

It is about not losing the right to run the endline as a result of the other team committing an infraction when the subsequent throwin remains on the endline.

I see how what I wrote may be a bit misleading. You took my statement as declarative that the final action is what dictates, meaning if the basket came first and the foul was second then the team wouldn't be able to run. That is certainly not the message which I meant to convey as it would be inaccurate under the present rules.

However, I believe that what I wrote is an accurate statement for the specific case posed and always has been (at least since the right to run was introduced). In order to prove this to you, I must ask you to recall that prior to 2001-02 a team lost the right to run the end line when the scoring team committed a violation or a foul immediately following the goal or during the subsequent throw-in. The comment which accompanied the rule change that season made it clear that the rule change was for a foul or violation AFTER the score, not before as was the case presented here. Therefore, we must conclude that that rule change did not alter the proper administration for a play in which the scoring team fouled or violated BEFORE the goal, ie with the try in flight. I believe that allowing the non-scoring team to run the end line was proper in that case even prior to the 2001-02 season. Therefore, the reason which you cite, "It is about not losing the right to run" cannot be the correct rationale because the rule change which permits a team to retain that right doesn't actually apply to this situation. It is specifically for situations in which the foul or violation occurs following the goal.

Basically, when things happen in this particular order the committee had to make a choice of which rule took priority--the designated-spot throw-in for the foul or the right to run for the non-scoring team. I believe that they make the correct choice, as detailed in 7.5.7 Sit E, in allowing the offended team to run just as they would have had the opponent not fouled on the play.