Looking for clarification

[Rufus]

I'm a coach of a 12U rec team playing USSSA rules. Last night our catcher got a little eager to squeeze a pitch and obstructed the batter when the bat made contact with his glove. The pitch was tipped foul. The umpire called catcher's interference (I think he meant obstruction) and awarded the batter first base.

I'm not questioning the call (honestly, my catcher had no business being close enough for the batter to hit). Mine is more a theoretical question. Once the ball is fouled, according to USSSA 8.05.I:

The ball is dead and runners advance one (1) base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when:

8.05.I.5

A foul ball is not caught; runners return.

Now, is a tip considered a foul ball, or does it depend on if the catcher catches it? If it is a foul ball, would it matter if the obstruction occurred before or after the foul (i.e., is it a timing thing)?

8.07.G.1 says:

When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction": ... if the batter runner is obstructed before he touches first (1st) base, the ball is dead and all runner shall advance at least one (1) base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction.

My interpretation of this is that if it occurs before the foul there is no foul since the ball is dead. What about afterward? Is there a priority to which one occurred?

Appreciate any clarity you all can provide.

[johnnyg08]

define foul tip

[bob jenkins]

On CI, the offense has the option of taking the play or the penalty (unless the batter and all runners advance -- in that case the CI is ignored entirely).

You have outlined the result of the "play" -- a foul ball. And, it doesn't matter whether the mitt or the ball was struck first (although it's hard to come up with an example where the ball would be hit first).

So, the offensive coach can choose (a) a strike on the batter and runners return, or (b) Batter to first, runners return unless forced.

Most of the time, option B will be better.

[UmpJM]

Rufus,

No, he meant "catcher's interference" - only FED calls it " catcher's obstruction".

The proper USSSA rule reference is:

8.06.K The batter becomes a runner and is entitled to first (1st) base without liability to be put out (provided he advances to and touches first base) when:

...

8.06.K.3 The catcher or any fielder interferes with him. If a play follows the interference, the manager of the offense may advise the plate umpire that he elects to decline the interference penalty and accept the play. Such election shall be made immediately at the end of the play. However, if the batter reaches first (1st) base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batsman, or otherwise and all other runners advance at least one (1) base, the play proceeds without reference to the interference.

Whether the batter bats the ball foul, fair, hits a foul tip, or completely misses the ball is immaterial as to whether or not the interference occurred. If the batter does manage to bat the ball into play, the ball is NOT immediately dead, but play is allowed to continue to completion. Depending on the particulars of what happened the Offensive manager may have the option of accepting the penalty or the result of the play, or the interference may be disregarded altogether.

JM

[Rufus]

Thanks Bob and UmpJM, that helps.

Bob, in answer to your question, I was thinking a foul tip (caught or not caught by the catcher as this wasn't a 3rd strike) and then connecting with the catcher's glove on the swing follow-through. As you and UmpJM state, it doesn't change the call, but that's an example I can come up with (if you think it's a strange one I guess I've seen too many 12U kids screw themselves into the ground on their swings and follow-throughs).

[johnnyg08]

Rufus, just for future reference, if the catcher doesn't catch the ball that goes directly from the bat to the catcher's mitt, it is not a foul tip, it is a foul ball. Foul tips, by definition, are live balls.

[gfgartland]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I was thinking a foul tip (caught or not caught by the catcher as this wasn't a 3rd strike)

The term foul tip refers to a pitch that is contacted by the bat then moves directly to the catcher's mit and is caught by any player. It is a live ball and a strike on the batter.

I believe the term that you are trying to use is foul tick which refers to a pitched ball that creates the ticking sound but is not caught. This is a foul ball.

*Sorry johnnyg08, was posting at the same time.

[johnnyg08]

no worries gf...your's has the detail that could help clarify the term.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rufus

then connecting with the catcher's glove on the swing follow-through.

That's not catcher's interference.

If it affects the catcher's ability to catch the ball, it's batter's interference in FED, and nothing (dead ball, runners return) in OBR (often called "weak interference).

[Rufus]

johnny and gf
Thanks again for the clarification. I knew a ball that was "tipped" and caught/held for 3rd strike was an out (even had to explain it to my son during a game this year) but knowing the difference between a "tip" and a "tick" now helps round that out.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's not catcher's interference.

If it affects the catcher's ability to catch the ball, it's batter's interference in FED, and nothing (dead ball, runners return) in OBR (often called "weak interference).

Learning all sorts of new things today. I appreciate the further clarification Bob.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by gfgartland

The term foul tip refers to a pitch that is contacted by the bat then moves directly to the catcher's mit and is caught by any player. It is a live ball and a strike on the batter.

It can also go to the catcher's hand and be caught.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rufus

johnny and gf
Thanks again for the clarification. I knew a ball that was "tipped" and caught/held for 3rd strike was an out (even had to explain it to my son during a game this year) but knowing the difference between a "tip" and a "tick" now helps round that out.

You're making a foul tip too difficult. A foul tip is a strike. Just a plain old, garden variety swinging strike.