Block? Charge? No call?

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by representing

in my honest opinion, it looked like a block. Take a closer look, the player with the ball picked up the dribble and just at that moment you can see the defensive player takes a jump forward. He lost his previous guarding position and I don't think he was in his new guarding position long enough before contact. I would have called a block for sure, but I'd have had to be there for a better answer.

player with the ball "time and distance are not a factor in establishing legal guarding position"

The first time I looked at this I had PC I watched it a couple more times with the same thought. Read this post looked again and I came away with......PC

[IUgrad92]

Defender established LGP, I have a PC as well.

Had a D1 official talk at our association meeting the other night and went through a good number of block/charge college video clips and broke them down. The terminology that I really picked up on was "to or through", meaning did the offensive player go 'to' the defender or did he go 'through' the defender.

This particular video, the offensive player clearly goes through the defender. He also mentioned that if you have 2 players on the ground as a result from a drive to the basket, the crew better come out with something (block or charge). And if you have to come in with a late whistle, because no one else took it, so be it. And when in doubt, you give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt.

So it sounds like an emphasis at the college level. We have been emphasizing "having a call when both players go to the ground" in our area as well and is definitely a pre-game point of discussion.

[Clark Kent]

Thanks guys. I love to read your opinions and break down a simple play that could cause some problems.

For the record Trail was waiving off the shot....he pauses when he realizes L has a whistle too. Lead drops and T goes PC.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Thanks guys. I love to read your opinions and break down a simple play that could cause some problems.

For the record Trail was waiving off the shot....he pauses when he realizes L has a whistle too. Lead drops and T goes PC.

Mind sharing any of the post-game discussion? What were the points brought up, in review who should have had the call, etc?

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Thanks guys. I love to read your opinions and break down a simple play that could cause some problems.

For the record Trail was waiving off the shot....he pauses when he realizes L has a whistle too. Lead drops and T goes PC.

Which one are you? L or T?

[bbcof83]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Defender established LGP, I have a PC as well.

Had a D1 official talk at our association meeting the other night and went through a good number of block/charge college video clips and broke them down. The terminology that I really picked up on was "to or through", meaning did the offensive player go 'to' the defender or did he go 'through' the defender.

This particular video, the offensive player clearly goes through the defender. He also mentioned that if you have 2 players on the ground as a result from a drive to the basket, the crew better come out with something (block or charge). And if you have to come in with a late whistle, because no one else took it, so be it. And when in doubt, you give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt.

So it sounds like an emphasis at the college level. We have been emphasizing "having a call when both players go to the ground" in our area as well and is definitely a pre-game point of discussion.

I like this A LOT.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

So it sounds like an emphasis at the college level. We have been emphasizing "having a call when both players go to the ground" in our area as well and is definitely a pre-game point of discussion.

Interesting. This sounds like a good idea since this would fall under the "call the obvious" category.

[Clark Kent]

I'm T (so pick him apart all you want....that's why I posted it was to get opinion and feedback) in this play.

I felt like he went through the defender and there was too much contact to pass on, so no call really wasn't an option.

My initial thought was that since it came out of my primary and on my side of the lane it was my call and was a bit surprised that my partner blew on this play, but after watching the video it was a secondary defender that slid over so it makes more sense to me now why he blew. We discussed it and I asked what he had before he dropped his arm and he said he was going with a block because he thought the kid had gotten there late.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I'm T (so pick him apart all you want....that's why I posted it was to get opinion and feedback) in this play.

I felt like he went through the defender and there was too much contact to pass on, so no call really wasn't an option.

My initial thought was that since it came out of my primary and on my side of the lane it was my call and was a bit surprised that my partner blew on this play, but after watching the video it was a secondary defender that slid over so it makes more sense to me now why he blew. We discussed it and I asked what he had before he dropped his arm and he said he was going with a block because he thought the kid had gotten there late.

I'd say he really wasn't refereeing the defense, then.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Interesting. This sounds like a good idea since this would fall under the "call the obvious" category.

But not as "obvious" as one would think. I believe there is at least one veteran official and contributor on here that believe a 'no call' would be best on this play. And I doubt he's the only one with that philosophy.

Hence, why it is a good topic for pre-game, unless you are working with partners that you've worked with previously and know their philosophy.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I'm T (so pick him apart all you want....that's why I posted it was to get opinion and feedback) in this play.

I felt like he went through the defender and there was too much contact to pass on, so no call really wasn't an option.

My initial thought was that since it came out of my primary and on my side of the lane it was my call and was a bit surprised that my partner blew on this play, but after watching the video it was a secondary defender that slid over so it makes more sense to me now why he blew. We discussed it and I asked what he had before he dropped his arm and he said he was going with a block because he thought the kid had gotten there late.

Your arms went up. Did you complete the preliminary signal? If so, do you think that played a part in what your partner went with?

Did you guys discuss how to handle double whistles in your pregame?

[Clark Kent]

yup my arms went up and started to waive off the shot when I realized we had a double, so I dropped them and looked at my partner who dropped his arm and nodded at me to take it. So I went PC.

At halftime we chatted about it and I asked him what he had and he said he had a block because he thought the player got there late. It made me question the play in my head more.

We did much better the second half with very few if any double whistles.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Had this play in my game the other day......at half time my partner and I talked about the play and differed on opinions, so I thought I'd get a few additional opinions.

YouTube - BlockCharge1 2010_01_14_00_38_14.avi

New guy says charge. And it seems reasonably clear cut. Does anyone think L should have closed in even more on this play for a better angle or moved deeper?

[Kelvin green]

I have no problems with Lead's positon. I also have no problem with Trail calling this .... I just cant figure out why Trail would think this is a block...

Who was tthe game Watreford and Roland Hall?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

yup my arms went up and started to waive off the shot when I realized we had a double, so I dropped them and looked at my partner who dropped his arm and nodded at me to take it. So I went PC.

At halftime we chatted about it and I asked him what he had and he said he had a block because he thought the player got there late. It made me question the play in my head more.

We did much better the second half with very few if any double whistles.

It seems that the consensus is that this was a PC which is what you called in the end. So you did well there.
I would advise you to sharpen up your mechanics. When calling a foul we need to blow the whistle and put a fist in the air. That is exactly what your partner did on this play, but you skipped the fist and went straight to a two-handed wave off of the shot. You need to break that habit immediately.

Also get in the practice of only waving off a shot if it actually goes in and you aren't going to count it, otherwise there is no reason to do so.

So I would say that you did better on the judgment side, but that your partner did better with mechanics.